1 00:00:35,549 --> 00:00:14,490 [Music] 2 00:00:40,660 --> 00:00:38,650 hello and welcome to the show I am 3 00:00:42,939 --> 00:00:40,670 Martin Willis your host and we have a 4 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:42,949 great show one of my favorites is on 5 00:00:47,170 --> 00:00:45,290 tonight Nick Redfern and I'm the very 6 00:00:49,180 --> 00:00:47,180 first interview with him about his new 7 00:00:51,009 --> 00:00:49,190 book I'm always excited to do that with 8 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:51,019 Nick because he has so many great books 9 00:00:57,910 --> 00:00:54,650 out there this the title to this book is 10 00:01:01,120 --> 00:00:57,920 flying saucers from the Kremlin UFOs 11 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:01,130 Russian meddling Soviet spies and cold 12 00:01:06,910 --> 00:01:04,729 war secrets and a lot of people that 13 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:06,920 listen to the show know that I have a 14 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:09,200 little bit of an affinity for Russia 15 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:10,610 I know Russia has been in the bad news 16 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:14,750 in a bad way in the news often but I 17 00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:17,330 have gone there many times in it's an 18 00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:19,430 interesting culture I've tried to 19 00:01:23,859 --> 00:01:22,070 research UFOs Eero talk up to Nick a 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:23,869 little bit about that I want to thank 21 00:01:27,690 --> 00:01:25,490 everyone that helps out with the show 22 00:01:30,490 --> 00:01:27,700 anyone can do that you go over to 23 00:01:34,330 --> 00:01:30,500 podcast UFO comm that informations there 24 00:01:37,510 --> 00:01:34,340 our blog this week is by charles lear is 25 00:01:39,580 --> 00:01:37,520 a UFOs and schoolchildren he discusses 26 00:01:42,039 --> 00:01:39,590 not only like the aerial school incident 27 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:42,049 which many times we talk about here but 28 00:01:46,030 --> 00:01:44,330 all other cases that are known with 29 00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:46,040 schoolchildren there's quite a few cases 30 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:47,990 and it's really fascinating so check 31 00:01:55,690 --> 00:01:52,070 that out over at podcast UFO comm and I 32 00:01:59,260 --> 00:01:55,700 think that may be enough for right now 33 00:02:01,179 --> 00:01:59,270 alejandro how are you yes sir I'm doing 34 00:02:04,210 --> 00:02:01,189 well how are you my friend good good 35 00:02:06,190 --> 00:02:04,220 welcome to the show and so lots cooking 36 00:02:08,830 --> 00:02:06,200 as we talked about every week lately 37 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:08,840 lots going on in the UFO world and I 38 00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:10,209 don't know what you want to tackle first 39 00:02:16,539 --> 00:02:14,720 but yeah I guess I'll go down the list 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:16,549 at the beginning of the lists that 41 00:02:19,569 --> 00:02:19,010 you'll find of the UFO headlines at open 42 00:02:23,020 --> 00:02:19,579 minds 43 00:02:25,509 --> 00:02:23,030 TV is a great story from Tyler broke 44 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:25,519 away so we both talked to him and we 45 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:29,090 talked about him because he is a defense 46 00:02:33,670 --> 00:02:31,010 writer in the mainstream he writes for a 47 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:33,680 site called the war zone and he's been 48 00:02:37,990 --> 00:02:35,720 writing about aerospace and aerospace 49 00:02:39,190 --> 00:02:38,000 technology for his entire life and so 50 00:02:40,690 --> 00:02:39,200 that's why it's important 51 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:40,700 for him to start writing about UFOs and 52 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:42,290 getting involved in all of this and 53 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:44,450 people have been frustrated because he's 54 00:02:48,430 --> 00:02:45,860 been doing both he's been talking about 55 00:02:50,589 --> 00:02:48,440 you know maybe this is some secret tech 56 00:02:53,559 --> 00:02:50,599 that these Navy pilots have been seeing 57 00:02:55,270 --> 00:02:53,569 and he's also however been kind of 58 00:02:58,210 --> 00:02:55,280 talking with pilots and putting together 59 00:03:00,370 --> 00:02:58,220 the facts so we you can kind of see his 60 00:03:03,009 --> 00:03:00,380 mindset how he's struggling with what 61 00:03:06,130 --> 00:03:03,019 the heck could this be it doesn't seem 62 00:03:07,780 --> 00:03:06,140 to be our tech but is it Wendy does a 63 00:03:11,380 --> 00:03:07,790 great job of making the point if it is 64 00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:11,390 our tech the the maneuvers and what they 65 00:03:16,210 --> 00:03:12,769 describe these things doing is 66 00:03:18,339 --> 00:03:16,220 absolutely phenomenal so I think the 67 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:18,349 more significant story he's had lately 68 00:03:22,660 --> 00:03:20,209 he's had to in the last week one of them 69 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:22,670 was well maybe they are seeing these 70 00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:26,090 airborne radar reflectors you know 71 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:27,769 certainly that when they count for all 72 00:03:32,530 --> 00:03:30,170 of the sightings that the Navy's having 73 00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:32,540 especially the tic tacs however he also 74 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:34,849 got a hold of one of these pilots that 75 00:03:40,030 --> 00:03:36,880 was just on this latest episode of 76 00:03:44,259 --> 00:03:40,040 unidentified these pilots who were part 77 00:03:46,210 --> 00:03:44,269 of the Roosevelt group and 2015 the 78 00:03:49,059 --> 00:03:46,220 Roosevelt Strike Force which is 79 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:49,069 essentially the aircraft carrier they 80 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:50,720 were off the post coast of Florida and 81 00:03:56,430 --> 00:03:52,310 they saw these objects that seemed to 82 00:03:59,530 --> 00:03:56,440 follow them to Iran and they saw this 83 00:04:02,890 --> 00:03:59,540 cube shaped object inside of a clear 84 00:04:04,150 --> 00:04:02,900 sphere he asked you know other pilots is 85 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:04,160 this common you know is this something 86 00:04:09,610 --> 00:04:07,250 that others are seeing and his story was 87 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:09,620 and the headline is recent UFO 88 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:12,100 encounters with Navy pilots occurred 89 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:16,250 constantly across multiple squadrons so 90 00:04:19,569 --> 00:04:17,900 he found out there's a lot more pilots 91 00:04:21,460 --> 00:04:19,579 than just this one small group that is 92 00:04:24,219 --> 00:04:21,470 reporting this sort of thing when they 93 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:24,229 are across multiple squadrons so that 94 00:04:30,010 --> 00:04:27,440 this dish UFO phenomena is affecting you 95 00:04:33,129 --> 00:04:30,020 know more pilots than just the what have 96 00:04:35,409 --> 00:04:33,139 we heard maybe four pilots so far four 97 00:04:37,450 --> 00:04:35,419 or five on the unidentified television 98 00:04:39,460 --> 00:04:37,460 show so I think we're gonna hear a lot 99 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:39,470 more about that especially now that the 100 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:42,080 Navy has changed their rules to be kind 101 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:44,889 of more Pro UFOs to be more open to 102 00:04:49,719 --> 00:04:47,780 having their pilots report UFO sightings 103 00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:49,729 so that's pretty exciting I think that's 104 00:04:53,090 --> 00:04:51,860 some really good work that he does there 105 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:53,100 yeah yeah always 106 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:56,130 reading Tyler's work it's good stuff 107 00:05:00,260 --> 00:04:58,050 yeah I mean I think it's really 108 00:05:02,030 --> 00:05:00,270 important to also see the process that 109 00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:02,040 mainstream journalism goes through 110 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:04,440 especially someone like Tyler who's open 111 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:06,120 to the idea that there is something 112 00:05:12,260 --> 00:05:08,970 going on here that these pilots are you 113 00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:12,270 know accurately describing what they're 114 00:05:16,730 --> 00:05:14,700 encountering and if they are which he 115 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:16,740 makes a point that you know it's they've 116 00:05:21,260 --> 00:05:19,830 got to be then what the heck is this and 117 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:21,270 you see that struggle that they're going 118 00:05:27,020 --> 00:05:24,090 through yeah so that's really 119 00:05:29,330 --> 00:05:27,030 interesting you know both you and I have 120 00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:29,340 also talked to Calvin Parker and this is 121 00:05:33,860 --> 00:05:31,950 pretty cool too Calvin Parker was part 122 00:05:35,630 --> 00:05:33,870 of the Pascagoula incident which 123 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:35,640 happened in the 70s you know where he 124 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:38,580 and his buddy Charles Hickson had 125 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:41,370 encountered these strange creatures now 126 00:05:45,410 --> 00:05:42,990 he's going to be speaking at the UFO 127 00:05:49,370 --> 00:05:45,420 Congress however there it has been some 128 00:05:51,980 --> 00:05:49,380 really pretty neat news the Mississippi 129 00:05:55,370 --> 00:05:51,990 officials have commemorated his account 130 00:05:57,350 --> 00:05:55,380 there's an NPR radio interview that you 131 00:06:00,950 --> 00:05:57,360 can listen to that we have a link to 132 00:06:02,980 --> 00:06:00,960 here but yeah kind of like Tom Reed he's 133 00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:02,990 had some actual issues with this 134 00:06:08,270 --> 00:06:05,340 historical marker that commemorates his 135 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:08,280 incident but in New Hampshire Betty and 136 00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:10,860 burning Hills they their incident has 137 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:13,620 been commemorated by a state marker and 138 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:16,290 now the Pascagoula case so that's 139 00:06:20,150 --> 00:06:17,610 another important thing we're kind of 140 00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:20,160 these historical societies across the 141 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:23,520 country are open to you know at least 142 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:25,620 making these historical markers to mark 143 00:06:29,690 --> 00:06:27,630 these events or at least the occurrence 144 00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:29,700 of these large cultural events even if 145 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:33,360 they're UFO or alien related and I think 146 00:06:37,220 --> 00:06:35,130 you'll agree that Calvin Parker comes 147 00:06:38,470 --> 00:06:37,230 across as very credible this is one of 148 00:06:42,290 --> 00:06:38,480 the more credible cases out there 149 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:42,300 absolutely and and just to think that he 150 00:06:47,330 --> 00:06:44,760 was up I have to give credit to Michael 151 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:47,340 Oak who wrote the blog from you years 152 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:49,440 ago and basically Calvin came out of 153 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:52,260 many years of staying away and out of 154 00:06:55,010 --> 00:06:54,450 interviews and he actually reached out 155 00:06:58,820 --> 00:06:55,020 to me 156 00:07:01,250 --> 00:06:58,830 initially several years ago after he 157 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:01,260 read the blog which is awesome because 158 00:07:04,909 --> 00:07:03,300 now he is 159 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:04,919 he said he's only going to be doing this 160 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:06,930 for about a year or so but he's 161 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:09,210 in the limelight and I think his timing 162 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:11,610 was perfect for actually writing this 163 00:07:18,290 --> 00:07:14,970 book with Phil meant Philip mantel I got 164 00:07:20,689 --> 00:07:18,300 those two together and that was a big 165 00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:20,699 success and he's going around the world 166 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:22,620 and stuff he's in the world went because 167 00:07:26,629 --> 00:07:24,090 people are taking him seriously and I 168 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:26,639 think that's because things have changed 169 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:30,120 in the UFO yeah they're not just passing 170 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:32,850 an office you know a crazy guy and he is 171 00:07:38,510 --> 00:07:35,850 it is a very credit of a credible case 172 00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:38,520 good one mm-hmm I agree I agree yeah 173 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:39,870 there's a very credible case and they 174 00:07:42,830 --> 00:07:41,490 said that and I'm not sure if this is 175 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:42,840 the case or not as far as I know it 176 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:44,510 still is is that after the Congress 177 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:46,889 after the UFO Congress he's not gonna be 178 00:07:50,210 --> 00:07:48,660 doing talks or anything anymore he's 179 00:07:52,820 --> 00:07:50,220 going back to fishing that's what he 180 00:07:56,719 --> 00:07:52,830 says yeah we'll see 181 00:07:58,550 --> 00:07:56,729 full-time fishing yep yep that's even 182 00:08:00,860 --> 00:07:58,560 part of his email out there Mississippi 183 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:00,870 yeah well yeah lots of other stories of 184 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:04,470 course related to the Navy talking about 185 00:08:08,839 --> 00:08:07,289 UFOs Congress talking about UFOs and 186 00:08:10,430 --> 00:08:08,849 last week we've heard from a senator 187 00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:10,440 senator Warren who's part of the 188 00:08:15,890 --> 00:08:13,440 Intelligence Committee him talking about 189 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:15,900 being briefed on UFOs and then why he 190 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:17,490 thinks that this is serious and it needs 191 00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:20,220 to be taken seriously and then of course 192 00:08:25,550 --> 00:08:22,800 the president has had a little bit of a 193 00:08:27,529 --> 00:08:25,560 mention on ABC about all of this which 194 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:27,539 is also kind of created this media 195 00:08:34,070 --> 00:08:30,300 fervor which is all still going on so we 196 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:34,080 have a lot of talk about UFOs and even 197 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:36,270 some sightings of loon balloons oh yeah 198 00:08:44,870 --> 00:08:40,800 that have spawned some UFO UFO sighting 199 00:08:46,910 --> 00:08:44,880 reports but you know as the public gets 200 00:08:48,350 --> 00:08:46,920 more interested in this topic they're 201 00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:48,360 also going to be more interested in 202 00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:50,940 these cases that though or these objects 203 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:54,480 that often create these UFO reports that 204 00:08:58,850 --> 00:08:56,730 aren't UFOs but that's going to happen 205 00:09:00,590 --> 00:08:58,860 but still we all get educated and this 206 00:09:02,660 --> 00:09:00,600 doesn't account certainly for all of the 207 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:02,670 Navy accounts or other serious accounts 208 00:09:07,820 --> 00:09:05,250 that we've heard across the along the 209 00:09:10,610 --> 00:09:07,830 way over the years so it's an exciting 210 00:09:13,940 --> 00:09:10,620 time all eyes are on what we do and that 211 00:09:17,810 --> 00:09:13,950 that's a lot of fun yeah hey our good 212 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:17,820 friend Lee Spiegel contacted me I think 213 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:21,270 it was yesterday and about this spike 214 00:09:25,790 --> 00:09:23,340 of methane on Mars have you read 215 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:25,800 anything about that well it's not 216 00:09:31,910 --> 00:09:28,200 necessarily yeah they've they see 217 00:09:35,390 --> 00:09:31,920 methane on Mars and the latest Rover is 218 00:09:38,510 --> 00:09:35,400 designed to detect methane on Mars and 219 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:38,520 it's in a location where there is a lot 220 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:42,000 of methane that is exciting in that it 221 00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:45,570 could indicate life but you know I think 222 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:47,040 that there's a lot of news in the 223 00:09:53,570 --> 00:09:50,360 astrobiological world as well there are 224 00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:53,580 other indications of potential life in 225 00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:56,400 other areas so I mean it's certainly an 226 00:10:01,880 --> 00:09:59,760 area to keep an eye on but it just it 227 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:01,890 may indicate life it's not anything 228 00:10:06,890 --> 00:10:03,570 definitive there are other processes 229 00:10:09,290 --> 00:10:06,900 that create methane gas but at least 230 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:09,300 this is one of the kind of hallmarks 231 00:10:12,950 --> 00:10:10,770 that they're looking for they were 232 00:10:16,910 --> 00:10:12,960 looking to see at what concentrations 233 00:10:19,490 --> 00:10:16,920 methane exists and they see it in very 234 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:19,500 low concentrations what that means to 235 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:22,500 them is to that there's a necessity to 236 00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:24,480 keep looking for potential for life but 237 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:27,390 they also make the point that this could 238 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:30,030 be leftover methane from methane that 239 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:34,010 was from life before however 240 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:37,740 methane does get dissolved by solar race 241 00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:40,620 so it can't have been that long ago but 242 00:10:44,030 --> 00:10:42,780 these are all the factors that they you 243 00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:44,040 know things that they think about they 244 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:45,900 can figure out how long would methane 245 00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:48,210 last on the planet and you know given 246 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:51,600 the deterioration and of methane and 247 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:52,650 these are some of the things that 248 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:54,210 they're considering and looking at right 249 00:10:59,630 --> 00:10:56,310 now but methane is another sign that 250 00:11:02,540 --> 00:10:59,640 there could be life on Mars today just 251 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:02,550 like we have microbes in our soil and in 252 00:11:07,940 --> 00:11:05,220 our rocks that could be the case in Mars 253 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:07,950 and you have also a headline on your 254 00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:10,530 website about that life could have 255 00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:13,500 existed much earlier on Mars than on the 256 00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:15,030 earth which is pretty interesting as 257 00:11:19,790 --> 00:11:17,160 well that's another yeah that's another 258 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:19,800 new discovery that they're looking at is 259 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:22,800 did have Mars have life a long time ago 260 00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:26,570 we know now and this used to be kind of 261 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:29,190 this used to be strange to think that 262 00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:32,250 Mars had water or has water we do know 263 00:11:37,369 --> 00:11:34,649 there is water there 264 00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,379 I think now they suspect there is liquid 265 00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:40,079 water there the surface of Mars is not 266 00:11:44,179 --> 00:11:42,180 conducive to liquid water but it could 267 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:44,189 be if water is seeping out from the 268 00:11:48,139 --> 00:11:46,110 ground and there's indication there 269 00:11:49,699 --> 00:11:48,149 could be liquid water underground of 270 00:11:53,239 --> 00:11:49,709 course that's important to life as we 271 00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,249 know it and they're looking at the 272 00:11:58,489 --> 00:11:56,160 possibility because you do see that the 273 00:12:01,249 --> 00:11:58,499 surface of Mars was manipulated by water 274 00:12:03,319 --> 00:12:01,259 by massive amounts of water and you know 275 00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,329 as much as 10 years maybe even a little 276 00:12:08,119 --> 00:12:05,519 longer than that that was kind of a 277 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:08,129 crazy idea that Mars once had water now 278 00:12:12,019 --> 00:12:10,170 it's a given that Mars had lots of water 279 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:12,029 like we do rivers and streams and lakes 280 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:14,670 and possibly oceans young so that maybe 281 00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:16,649 they had an abundance of life in the 282 00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:19,019 past and it's just gone now that the 283 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:20,670 atmosphere is is the left and the 284 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:22,050 conditions have changed right 285 00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:23,970 magnetosphere gone and everything 286 00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:26,100 evaporate I'm glad we're talking about 287 00:12:30,319 --> 00:12:28,470 Mars with the hat you're wearing it it 288 00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:30,329 worked perfect yeah perfect time I 289 00:12:34,189 --> 00:12:31,860 didn't even know you're gonna go there 290 00:12:35,749 --> 00:12:34,199 but this is from my Mars television 291 00:12:37,309 --> 00:12:35,759 shared series and I got that from Nat 292 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:37,319 Geo and you guys should check that out 293 00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:39,660 cuz it's online streaming but a great 294 00:12:44,749 --> 00:12:41,399 show where it considers a lot of these 295 00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:44,759 ideas now the science behind that and 296 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:48,120 behind us going to Mars in fact Brian 297 00:12:52,850 --> 00:12:50,550 bender from Politico who writes a lot 298 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:52,860 about you know space and these sort of 299 00:12:57,259 --> 00:12:55,110 things in UFOs lately he's in the show 300 00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:57,269 unidentified he predicted today on 301 00:13:03,530 --> 00:12:59,490 Twitter that we won't get to Mars till 302 00:13:06,079 --> 00:13:03,540 2040 why this show covers a lot of it 303 00:13:08,299 --> 00:13:06,089 there are a lot of consideration so just 304 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:08,309 because Elon Musk might be able to get 305 00:13:12,139 --> 00:13:10,470 us there in the next 10 years doesn't 306 00:13:15,169 --> 00:13:12,149 mean we're ready nor does it mean that 307 00:13:17,059 --> 00:13:15,179 humans can survive the exact lot of the 308 00:13:18,889 --> 00:13:17,069 stress on the human body there's a lot 309 00:13:19,579 --> 00:13:18,899 we have to figure out still that we 310 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:19,589 haven't 311 00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:22,470 radiation shielding all of these sort of 312 00:13:27,799 --> 00:13:25,439 things and we really haven't moved very 313 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:27,809 far so we've moved more further on the 314 00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:29,610 propulsion area exactly right and we 315 00:13:33,859 --> 00:13:32,040 have on the actual habitation area and 316 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:33,869 that's probably what's gonna stall us 317 00:13:38,179 --> 00:13:35,970 getting humans to Mars even though we 318 00:13:40,549 --> 00:13:38,189 may have a lot more as far as probes and 319 00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:40,559 maybe even human too orbiting Mars in 320 00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,860 the next 10 years or so to actually stay 321 00:13:47,179 --> 00:13:45,360 there for a period of time it's gonna be 322 00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:47,189 a little more difficult yeah there's so 323 00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:48,420 many hazards it's it 324 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:51,390 it's most likely want a one-way trip is 325 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:53,370 the best we could do with this you know 326 00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:56,100 even in ten years from now probably yeah 327 00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:58,170 so I mean bender predicts even when we 328 00:14:02,990 --> 00:14:00,660 get there if that is indeed 2040 ish 329 00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:03,000 that it'll be a one-way trip and 330 00:14:07,940 --> 00:14:05,550 possibly even a suicide mission yeah 331 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:07,950 yeah there's so many hazards like you 332 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:10,230 say you need what fun it will be to live 333 00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:13,410 underground right yeah well that would 334 00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:16,200 be one potential actually Bob Bigelow of 335 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:19,020 Bigelow Aerospace just announced in the 336 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:21,630 last week also a different system where 337 00:14:28,460 --> 00:14:26,310 essentially you take these fabric chutes 338 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:28,470 almost like these straws that are put 339 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:30,570 together and you fill them with Riggle s 340 00:14:36,020 --> 00:14:32,700 and this is Amin and in the case of the 341 00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:36,030 moon essentially sent do you fill them 342 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:37,980 with the material you find on the 343 00:14:42,980 --> 00:14:40,110 surface of the Moon and then you drape 344 00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:42,990 those over your habitats and that 345 00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:44,940 protects you from radiation so it's kind 346 00:14:48,950 --> 00:14:47,460 of a novel idea and you live on the 347 00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:48,960 surface yeah because that's the main 348 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:51,990 concern living underground is one way to 349 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:55,410 avoid the radiation but this is another 350 00:15:02,980 --> 00:14:57,890 way that could also be cost-effective 351 00:15:05,210 --> 00:15:02,990 fairly simple to do and another you know 352 00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:05,220 realistic way that we could avoid the 353 00:15:11,330 --> 00:15:08,430 radiation excellent all right well hey 354 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:11,340 thanks so much yep thank you all right 355 00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:12,690 and I'm will be talking to you again 356 00:15:16,940 --> 00:15:15,000 next week as always I appreciate all 357 00:15:17,540 --> 00:15:16,950 right have a great show you bet all 358 00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:17,550 right take care 359 00:15:22,940 --> 00:15:20,760 all right everyone so we are ready to 360 00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:22,950 roll with Nick Redfern he's been on the 361 00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:25,230 show many times like I said in the 362 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:27,000 beginning he's one of the favorites here 363 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:30,330 and this time he is going to be talking 364 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:32,490 about his book called flying saucers 365 00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:35,130 from the Kremlin UFOs Russia meddling 366 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:38,280 Soviet spies and Cold War secrets he's a 367 00:15:42,830 --> 00:15:40,650 full time author I can't believe the 368 00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:42,840 amount of books this gentleman writes no 369 00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:44,550 he's always fun to talk to welcome to 370 00:15:51,140 --> 00:15:48,300 the show Nick it's going great 371 00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:51,150 good good to have you back again thank 372 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,750 yes so Nick we don't have to go because 373 00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:55,920 you've been on the show a number of 374 00:15:59,420 --> 00:15:57,870 times we don't have to go into a 375 00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,430 background like we often do in the 376 00:16:02,690 --> 00:16:01,860 beginning of these shows here but if you 377 00:16:05,690 --> 00:16:02,700 would 378 00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:05,700 why don't you tell us the genesis of 379 00:16:10,819 --> 00:16:07,260 this book what made you decide to write 380 00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:10,829 it well you know whenever I'm writing a 381 00:16:14,630 --> 00:16:13,200 new book I always try and find you know 382 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:14,640 something that's new you don't want to 383 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:17,910 just go over all ground and recycle 384 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:21,170 stuff it's just pointless you know and 385 00:16:27,019 --> 00:16:23,820 there are so many different aspects to 386 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:27,029 the UFO phenomenon that you know you can 387 00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:28,890 go in many different directions 388 00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:32,790 now just to sort of one of the things I 389 00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:34,769 talk about in this in the introduction 390 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:37,980 of the book is how the the theme of the 391 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:40,050 book is how the Russians at the height 392 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:42,649 of the Cold War throughout the Cold War 393 00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:46,320 fabricated and created bogus UFO cases 394 00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:55,850 I'll try always trying to alter the the 395 00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,620 mind the the the state of mind of the US 396 00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:00,959 public and the military and it was a 397 00:17:08,059 --> 00:17:04,020 very bizarre set of situations now I 398 00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:08,069 should sort of state first but before we 399 00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:09,600 get to the issue of the Russians 400 00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:13,230 creating fabricated UFO cases there's 401 00:17:18,439 --> 00:17:15,179 absolutely no doubt in my mind that 402 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:18,449 there is a genuine UFO phenomenon now 403 00:17:22,669 --> 00:17:20,510 I'm quite open as to whether it's 404 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:22,679 extraterrestrial or if it's sort of 405 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:26,010 interdimensional multi-dimensional I 406 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:27,600 don't know you know I'm honest enough to 407 00:17:32,780 --> 00:17:30,570 admit I don't know what the phenomenon 408 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:32,790 is or where it's from and what its 409 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:35,610 origins are but I do believe there is a 410 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:37,890 genuine UFO phenomenon which has nothing 411 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:41,910 to do with you know military experiments 412 00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:43,080 and things like that even though that's 413 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:45,390 a part of it you know there is a genuine 414 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:48,540 UFO phenomenon but what was particularly 415 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:50,910 intriguing and which a lot of people 416 00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,510 have overlooked is the fact he's the 417 00:17:59,539 --> 00:17:55,919 fact that although there's a real 418 00:18:01,659 --> 00:17:59,549 phenomenon that same real phenomenon the 419 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:01,669 height of the Cold War was sort of 420 00:18:08,539 --> 00:18:05,490 manipulated by Soviet intelligence as a 421 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:08,549 means to create folk fake stories of 422 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:12,450 UFOs bogus tales of alien abductions and 423 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:15,510 crashed UFOs as a means to try and 424 00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:16,480 convince the 425 00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:19,120 United States that the aliens were 426 00:18:24,090 --> 00:18:22,030 communists now so as strange and as 427 00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:24,100 bizarre as that might sound I actually 428 00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:26,470 managed to get a number of documents to 429 00:18:32,659 --> 00:18:29,350 actually confirm that the US 430 00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:32,669 intelligence was deeply worried but if 431 00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:36,340 enough people read enough UFO books like 432 00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:38,350 for example George Adamski's first book 433 00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:43,150 wrote in his first prince sold 125,000 434 00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:47,080 copies and Adamski himself was a 435 00:18:50,970 --> 00:18:49,120 supporter of communism a lot of people 436 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:50,980 don't know that and so there was deep 437 00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:52,900 concern that you know this guy would 438 00:18:59,220 --> 00:18:56,710 [\h__\h] communist leanings with selling 439 00:19:02,700 --> 00:18:59,230 books about aliens who were communists 440 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:02,710 as well in the figures of 125,000 and 441 00:19:09,419 --> 00:19:06,130 the Russians Patrice ort of followed 442 00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:09,429 this angle more and more as a means to 443 00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:11,700 try and from their perspective 444 00:19:16,830 --> 00:19:14,940 destabilize the US and have us think 445 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:16,840 communism is actually quite a good thing 446 00:19:22,289 --> 00:19:20,530 and that's basically the theme of the 447 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:22,299 book you know the point out of a full-on 448 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:24,220 believer in the phenomenon but it's a 449 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:27,250 phenomenon which intelligence agencies 450 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:29,710 around the world have used and 451 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:32,500 manipulated as a means to achieve a very 452 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:35,710 different goal in many respects so is 453 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:38,650 this more of like a Cold War thing that 454 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:40,990 you're talking about because you know 455 00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:43,510 you think about the first the modern-day 456 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:47,230 UFOs are you know 1947 and after you 457 00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:51,400 know post 1947 so it it's all mostly the 458 00:19:56,220 --> 00:19:54,520 Cold War situation well most of it is 459 00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:56,230 but he does go right to the present day 460 00:20:01,140 --> 00:19:58,570 I mean the the titles flying saucers 461 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,150 from the Kremlin and that the subtitle 462 00:20:06,659 --> 00:20:03,280 will give you sort of a an idea of the 463 00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:06,669 theme it's UFOs Russian meddling Soviet 464 00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:09,100 spies and Cold War secrets so a lot of 465 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:11,830 it does cover the Cold War but in saying 466 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:14,860 that it does actually take the the the 467 00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:16,570 subject right to the present day and 468 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:19,350 demonstrates that at least as late as 469 00:20:25,169 --> 00:20:22,570 2018 that this research was still being 470 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:25,179 done by the Russians as a means to again 471 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:28,480 manipulate the West now one of the 472 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:30,010 things I should stress is 473 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:32,050 whoever's doing this or the people are 474 00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:34,510 doing this primarily it's Russian 475 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:37,000 intelligence you know I think one of the 476 00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:39,490 things that you know a lot of people 477 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:43,180 don't necessarily appreciate is that for 478 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:45,730 the most part you know the people in the 479 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:47,050 relevant countries whether we're 480 00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:49,180 entirely friendly with them or not 481 00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:51,640 they're just like us they're normal 482 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:53,950 regular people you know but all of us 483 00:20:59,030 --> 00:20:56,410 the regular normal people I just caught 484 00:21:01,740 --> 00:20:59,040 up in this sort of massive of 485 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:01,750 governments you know sort of going head 486 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:02,410 to head 487 00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:04,930 you know actually ironically I have 488 00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:07,630 several Russian friends here in the in 489 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:10,120 the Russian area and you know that 490 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:12,070 they're just like us and of course that 491 00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:13,570 might sound a stupid thing to say but 492 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:15,580 some people think well they're not you 493 00:21:19,050 --> 00:21:16,840 know because they're Russians but they 494 00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:19,060 are you know they like to go on a Friday 495 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:20,590 night and have a couple of beers and 496 00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:23,020 hang out and have a good time right but 497 00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:26,590 what it comes down to is that we're not 498 00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:28,900 the ones who dictate in the situation 499 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:31,960 and that goes for the the same for the 500 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:34,690 people in any nation you know the 501 00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:36,310 Russian people are no different to us 502 00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:38,020 they're not demons I don't want to 503 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:40,360 destroy us people in their government 504 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,210 they wanna destroy us but they don't you 505 00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:45,760 know like us they just want to go out to 506 00:21:50,370 --> 00:21:47,740 have a good life and not have to worry 507 00:21:53,550 --> 00:21:50,380 about mushroom clouds of radiation you 508 00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:53,560 know right and like you mentioned you 509 00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:55,360 know you have some friends of course I 510 00:22:02,400 --> 00:21:58,480 again my girlfriend of many years is 511 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:02,410 Russian and there's a lot of lot of them 512 00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:04,090 want to come here you know because it's 513 00:22:08,190 --> 00:22:05,740 they feel it's a better life here then 514 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:08,200 then over there and after spending you 515 00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:10,570 know an equivalent of I think about a 516 00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:14,020 couple couple of months over there I I 517 00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:17,980 can see why I it is much nicer here I 518 00:22:24,780 --> 00:22:21,340 like being here my dad went to Russia 519 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:24,790 about 30-something years ago on vacation 520 00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:26,410 and daddy a great time you know I went 521 00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,870 to the Kremlin oh yeah some Petersburg 522 00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:31,360 and Moscow and well over the place he 523 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:34,660 had a really good time and and and you 524 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:36,550 know took a bunch of photographs and it 525 00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:38,770 was far more sort of severe then you 526 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:42,430 know as it was as it is today 527 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:43,810 you know but I think 528 00:22:47,370 --> 00:22:45,310 I think what all this kind of 529 00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:47,380 demonstrates is that you know whether 530 00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:49,390 you're born in Russia or aborted china 531 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:51,940 or you born wherever you know we are 532 00:22:57,660 --> 00:22:55,510 really the pawns and and we can actually 533 00:23:00,120 --> 00:22:57,670 all sort of resonate with each other and 534 00:23:04,110 --> 00:23:00,130 hang out means also each of you know 535 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:04,120 with respective languages but it really 536 00:23:11,550 --> 00:23:07,330 is you know the government's that screw 537 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:11,560 everything up yes because you know the 538 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:13,030 like I said I mean that the Russian 539 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:14,710 people are no different to us the 540 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:17,170 Chinese and you know it's it's it's the 541 00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:19,810 people who call pull the strings they're 542 00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:22,300 sort of they end up demonizing 543 00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:24,670 everything you know yeah yeah we have to 544 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:26,350 go to break in about one minute or so 545 00:23:33,870 --> 00:23:30,310 here so and I want to get into you know 546 00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:33,880 specifics but keeping the one minute in 547 00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:37,660 in check right here do you want to you 548 00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:39,400 want to start out by like what do you 549 00:23:44,250 --> 00:23:41,200 talk about at the very beginning of the 550 00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,260 book how do you get well the book 551 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:46,720 basically starts with US intelligence 552 00:23:52,290 --> 00:23:49,420 when the whole flying saucer phenomenon 553 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:52,300 began in the summer of 47 they started 554 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:55,090 to look into these cases and got 555 00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:57,490 significant rumors from the intelligence 556 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:00,640 people that the Russians were working on 557 00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:02,650 this is like really really this is just 558 00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:05,590 almost post Kenneth Arnold we're trying 559 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:08,320 to find ways to use this real phenomenon 560 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:11,890 and spread stories that yes the 561 00:24:16,530 --> 00:24:13,930 phenomena is extraterrestrial oh and by 562 00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:16,540 the way their communism you know so that 563 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:19,960 that's that was what really fired up US 564 00:24:24,210 --> 00:24:21,810 intelligence which sort of hit back 565 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:24,220 psychologically you know when I hear 566 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:25,570 that the Russians were trying to 567 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:29,650 convince the US people that you know 568 00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,410 that the phenomenon was communist in in 569 00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:34,960 nature and wouldn't it be great to be a 570 00:24:39,630 --> 00:24:37,120 communist you know how about that Wow 571 00:24:41,550 --> 00:24:39,640 okay so we're gonna head to break all 572 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:41,560 right everyone my guest tonight is Nick 573 00:24:51,159 --> 00:24:44,620 Redfern and we will be right back right 574 00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,470 and we're clear Martin and we've got 575 00:24:58,220 --> 00:24:55,919 three and a half minutes in this break 576 00:25:01,370 --> 00:24:58,230 okay I set the timer thank you all right 577 00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:01,380 Nick so during the break here we've got 578 00:25:05,049 --> 00:25:03,600 three and a half minutes and so just 579 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:05,059 keep that in mind I wanted to ask you 580 00:25:18,169 --> 00:25:08,370 how many what number book is this of 581 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:18,179 yours about 53 54 55 it's something like 582 00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:20,730 that so that's amazing they're about 583 00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:23,760 it's the mid fifties yeah and and 584 00:25:30,289 --> 00:25:26,760 knowing that I know or have no author 585 00:25:33,020 --> 00:25:30,299 I've ever spoken to in the past has your 586 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:33,030 discipline and for the person for the 587 00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:34,890 person that is unaware of how you write 588 00:25:41,030 --> 00:25:37,260 your books can you just tell them you 589 00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:41,040 treat it like a job it's passive treated 590 00:25:47,060 --> 00:25:43,500 by there's a job in the sense that I you 591 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:47,070 know I am kind of sort of driven in the 592 00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:49,290 way I work well I wouldn't want people 593 00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:51,870 to think it's just a job you know it 594 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:53,940 isn't it's a passion and so of course I 595 00:25:58,159 --> 00:25:56,010 didn't mean it like that yeah yeah it's 596 00:26:00,409 --> 00:25:58,169 like a passionate exciting it's fun to 597 00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:00,419 do it and you know and uncovering 598 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:02,700 information so as long as you know as 599 00:26:08,060 --> 00:26:05,130 long as I've got that energy and that 600 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:08,070 sort of fascination and excitement for 601 00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:10,530 it I'll keep doing it but in terms of 602 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:14,460 sort of you know how I structure the 603 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:17,070 research and the writing yeah I like to 604 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:19,049 do 9:00 to 5:00 Monday to Friday and 605 00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:21,690 then I've got weekends off I've got 606 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:23,160 evenings off and never work evenings 607 00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:26,130 never work weekends laptop shuts down 608 00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:28,200 four o'clock on Friday afternoon I don't 609 00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:30,150 touch it till nine o'clock Monday 610 00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:33,120 morning that's a mean Monday comment but 611 00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:34,860 when Monday comes around Monday morning 612 00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:38,070 I do work 9:00 to 5:00 Monday to Friday 613 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:41,100 you know and you can get a lot done - 614 00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,850 sure I'm sure you know as an I don't 615 00:26:49,789 --> 00:26:46,320 really consider myself an artist I'll 616 00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:49,799 say I'm a painter so but I if I'm really 617 00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:52,620 into a painting I can't put that down 618 00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,179 how do you like if you're really on a 619 00:27:01,130 --> 00:26:56,700 roll how do you stop it at four o'clock 620 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:01,140 or whatever it is a good question what I 621 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:03,330 tend to do you know if you've got sort 622 00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:04,650 of six or seven three 623 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:07,140 swirling around your mind for that 624 00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:10,290 particular chapter and you know youth 625 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,320 time to finish what I genuinely do is to 626 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:15,480 sort of get you know sheet of paper and 627 00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:18,810 jot down what those five or six really 628 00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:21,270 cool extra things I need to do to make 629 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:23,520 the chapter really good so I'll sort of 630 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:26,490 make like bullet points and then next 631 00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:28,200 morning I'm still got those bullet 632 00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:30,150 points in front of me and in front of 633 00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:33,390 and in my head as well you know so I can 634 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:36,360 pick up straight away I don't fail you 635 00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:38,400 know that I've got to keep going 636 00:27:45,260 --> 00:27:41,070 because I'm on a on a roll you know I 637 00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,270 wake up on a roll so well I guess I 638 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:47,520 guess that you know I I guess I would 639 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:48,930 say that I have more of an obsessive 640 00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:52,110 nature in you know like when I get into 641 00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:53,700 something I really like to get through 642 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:57,240 it and so I I can't do what you you do 643 00:28:01,370 --> 00:27:58,410 and in your work 644 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:01,380 but I really I really admire it I am 645 00:28:08,210 --> 00:28:04,680 nice obvious it works very well well I 646 00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,220 think you know I think any kind of work 647 00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:11,120 in the arts you know whether it's poetry 648 00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:15,540 painting you know photography music 649 00:28:23,090 --> 00:28:20,700 whatever I think you know everybody you 650 00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:23,100 know has their own angle you know yeah 651 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:25,560 and I was have to say to people anybody 652 00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:27,810 and everybody has at least one story in 653 00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,670 them that can be turned into a book you 654 00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:30,960 know something that happened in your 655 00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:33,900 life you know I agree we're right at our 656 00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:36,390 end of our break but I agree with that I 657 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:39,030 think everyone has a story yeah we're 658 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:45,510 ready here yep four three two all right 659 00:28:50,390 --> 00:28:47,820 welcome back my guest tonight is Nick 660 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:50,400 Redfern this is Martin Willis at podcast 661 00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:55,530 UFO and we were talking about right 662 00:29:00,620 --> 00:28:56,700 before the break we were talking about 663 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:00,630 extraterrestrial and communism the the 664 00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:02,010 threat of cotton spreading communism 665 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:04,440 which i think is fascinating I can't 666 00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:06,930 believe that this was actually used as a 667 00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:10,470 tool I had never heard of this before is 668 00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:13,020 this is this something where did you 669 00:29:17,420 --> 00:29:14,880 first catch wind of this because I just 670 00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:17,430 never heard about this well over the 671 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:18,000 years I 672 00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:20,130 came across a few stories and snippets 673 00:29:24,620 --> 00:29:22,380 here and there as to sort of you know 674 00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:24,630 how the Russians were manipulating the 675 00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:27,960 UFO subjects now the reason why most 676 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:31,140 people only the general public all of us 677 00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:32,850 tonight the main reason why we didn't 678 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:35,160 know was because it was being done very 679 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:38,250 very sort of deeply and secretly behind 680 00:29:43,270 --> 00:29:41,130 the scenes and so they sort of almost 681 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:43,280 like a silent war was going on between 682 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:45,930 Russian intelligence and American 683 00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,410 intelligence and the average person who 684 00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:50,880 might have been interested in the UFO 685 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:52,980 subject wouldn't have known of that 686 00:30:00,410 --> 00:29:57,450 aspect of it but I often use the Freedom 687 00:30:02,770 --> 00:30:00,420 Information Act of a number of nations 688 00:30:05,150 --> 00:30:02,780 and manage to get hold of a lot of 689 00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:05,160 documentation showing there was deep 690 00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:08,220 concern even in sort of the weeks and 691 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:11,540 months after the Kenneth Arnold case in 692 00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:15,600 1947 in June 24 1947 which was the the 693 00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:17,670 case more than any other that really 694 00:30:22,790 --> 00:30:20,160 gave birth to the Flying Saucer 695 00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:22,800 phenomenon now through the Freedom of 696 00:30:29,690 --> 00:30:25,950 Information Act from the FBI I got hold 697 00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:29,700 of a wad of documentation where the FBI 698 00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:33,240 came to believe that at least some UFO 699 00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:36,390 cases in the summer of 47 when it all 700 00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:40,140 kicked off we're actually not Russian 701 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:45,270 spies but shall we say people who were 702 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:47,610 sort of either communists or were open 703 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:50,220 to communism and were recruited by the 704 00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:54,810 Russians to spread fake UFO stories and 705 00:31:01,130 --> 00:30:58,170 to also spread the rumors that these 706 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:01,140 were craft created by the Russians and 707 00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:04,410 that they were sort of far in advance of 708 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:06,780 what we got in other words like a secret 709 00:31:12,890 --> 00:31:09,570 weapon so to speak and the FBI actually 710 00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:12,900 opened an entire file on these rumors 711 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:15,000 and they tried to track down who these 712 00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:17,130 people were in the United States who 713 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:20,070 were sort of working on behalf of the 714 00:31:27,650 --> 00:31:24,650 Kremlin as a means to convince the u.s. 715 00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:27,660 population that these strange things 716 00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:29,940 that everybody's seen in the sky are 717 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:31,620 coming from the Soviet Union 718 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:35,460 they can outfly and you know the 719 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:38,010 technology is so advanced that here in 720 00:31:42,049 --> 00:31:39,690 the West we'd have nothing to combat 721 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:42,059 them now the reason why this didn't 722 00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:44,850 become sort of big news in terms of the 723 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:46,710 media but it did into in u.s. 724 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:50,210 intelligence is because the u.s. took 725 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:53,610 steps and very understandably steps as 726 00:31:58,340 --> 00:31:56,130 to why they should keep this quiet 727 00:32:00,529 --> 00:31:58,350 because the last thing you know we just 728 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:00,539 got out the second world war and the 729 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:02,610 Russians will be coming potentially the 730 00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:06,570 next big enemies or foes if you like and 731 00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:09,840 so they tried all their you know their 732 00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:13,110 utmost to try and prevent the Russians 733 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:17,340 from associating in the mind's eye of 734 00:32:23,419 --> 00:32:19,730 the u.s. to stop them prevent them from 735 00:32:28,370 --> 00:32:23,429 creating a connection between UFOs and 736 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:28,380 communism but what I found again using 737 00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:30,210 the Freedom Information Act I got hold 738 00:32:36,139 --> 00:32:33,899 of George Adamski's FBI file now George 739 00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:36,149 Adamski for people who may not know he 740 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:38,100 was one of the earliest so-called 741 00:32:44,419 --> 00:32:41,490 contactees of the 1950s they were people 742 00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,429 who claimed to have had very close 743 00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:47,360 encounters with extremely human looking 744 00:32:54,049 --> 00:32:51,080 aliens usually typically in sort of 745 00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:54,059 desert locations like in the deserts of 746 00:33:01,340 --> 00:32:58,260 Arizona New Mexico California and so on 747 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:01,350 and these so called space brothers that 748 00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:04,770 the contact he's met they actually sort 749 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,080 of spouted a lot of data if you like and 750 00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:12,080 ideas and concepts that were very much 751 00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:16,110 communist in nature now initially the 752 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:20,159 FBI released about 75 to 80 pages of 753 00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:23,370 material surveillance files on George 754 00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:26,760 Adamski about three years ago that 755 00:33:33,889 --> 00:33:30,270 figure got about 250 pages by now today 756 00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:33,899 the FBI have released about 450 pages of 757 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:36,080 surveillance documents on George Adamski 758 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:39,570 and most most of the contactees who were 759 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:41,610 watched in that period by the FBI and 760 00:33:45,380 --> 00:33:44,130 I've got most of their FBI files now in 761 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:45,390 Adamski's fire 762 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:47,130 as I mentioned at the beginning of the 763 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:51,030 show he his first book flying saucers 764 00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:54,210 have landed actually sold hundred 765 00:34:00,799 --> 00:33:57,179 twenty-five thousand books or there 766 00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:00,809 abouts now what happened was that a damn 767 00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:03,720 ski with someone who again a lot of 768 00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:04,860 people don't know this but he was 769 00:34:12,379 --> 00:34:08,879 someone who had a big affinity for 770 00:34:14,899 --> 00:34:12,389 communism and on his lecture circuits he 771 00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:14,909 would talk about how the Russians were 772 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:17,280 going to dominate the world and that it 773 00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:19,530 would only take a small number of atomic 774 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:22,889 bombs to place the u.s. in the state of 775 00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:24,690 chaos I mean you can understand at the 776 00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:27,119 height of the early Cold War and the 777 00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:28,830 Reds under the beds threats and 778 00:34:33,169 --> 00:34:30,419 everything's that kind of thing you can 779 00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:33,179 easily understand why the FBI opened a 780 00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:36,510 file on George Adamski but what was even 781 00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:38,460 more intriguing one of the reasons why 782 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:41,220 the fire was opened was because on 783 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:45,290 several occasions Adamski was seen 784 00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:48,810 chatting at conferences and also in this 785 00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:52,409 in in bars and restaurants in Los 786 00:35:00,859 --> 00:34:56,220 Angeles actually talking with Russian 787 00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:00,869 people apparently all about he's you 788 00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:02,670 know his ability to sort of spread 789 00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:04,950 communism but by doing it through like a 790 00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:09,060 flying saucer aspect and and that really 791 00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:11,940 worried the FBI I mean if you think 792 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:15,480 about it if Adamski's book only sold 25 793 00:35:21,140 --> 00:35:19,410 books you know and you know and like on 794 00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,150 a Sunday afternoon you put a lecture on 795 00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:23,280 and ten people would turn up the FBI 796 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:24,990 probably wouldn't bother about that at 797 00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:27,210 all sure he is a guy but he's a guy 798 00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:30,720 saying communism is great and he's 799 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:34,320 selling you know 125,000 copies of his 800 00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:37,290 book and you know his lectures were 801 00:35:42,530 --> 00:35:39,780 jammed they were packed with people and 802 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:42,540 so the FBI was concerned not so much 803 00:35:49,070 --> 00:35:46,290 about the UFO angle but they were more 804 00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:49,080 concerned about how the UFO issue was 805 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:52,619 being used to spread communism and as I 806 00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:54,000 said that doesn't take away the fact 807 00:35:58,760 --> 00:35:56,220 that there is in my mind a genuine UFO 808 00:35:59,300 --> 00:35:58,770 phenomenon but that phenomenon in the 809 00:36:01,550 --> 00:35:59,310 early fifth 810 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:01,560 he was hijacked if you like by the 811 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:04,380 Russians to spread the word that you 812 00:36:08,990 --> 00:36:06,930 know are we living in a great world and 813 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:09,000 over in the US you living in a terrible 814 00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:11,250 world that was basically the heart of it 815 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:13,920 isn't that something you know do you 816 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:18,450 think that they they sort of courted the 817 00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,630 UFO field or the contactee field or 818 00:36:25,250 --> 00:36:23,520 movement because they thought those 819 00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:25,260 people were more gullible and more 820 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:31,380 vulnerable to to change I mean where do 821 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:33,510 you think their reasoning was as far as 822 00:36:39,590 --> 00:36:36,570 targeting you know the I mean did they 823 00:36:42,110 --> 00:36:39,600 in as far as your research goes was it 824 00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:42,120 any other type of paranormal situation 825 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:44,940 as well or just the the flying saucer 826 00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:48,530 now they're actually where are the ones 827 00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:53,340 interesting ones just quickly when you 828 00:36:57,980 --> 00:36:55,980 mentioned you know about who gets 829 00:36:59,960 --> 00:36:57,990 targeted and why and so on 830 00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,970 but the interesting thing about George 831 00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:02,160 Adamski is that before he was actually 832 00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:05,700 targeted by either Russian intelligence 833 00:37:11,690 --> 00:37:09,390 or by people in the United States who 834 00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:11,700 you know were Berean to communism but 835 00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:14,910 were US citizens they basically what 836 00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:17,460 happened was that they targeted first 837 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:19,950 people who the Russians did background 838 00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:22,110 checks on people like of dance Adamski 839 00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:25,920 and they basically targeted those people 840 00:37:30,380 --> 00:37:27,480 first because they would be the most 841 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:30,390 vulnerable so a lot of background on the 842 00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:32,850 part of the Russians went on to try and 843 00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:35,760 figure out who can we use to best 844 00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:39,420 achieve this particular goal but in 845 00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:42,240 terms of other programs as well which 846 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:46,230 it's not a UFO program but it does 847 00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:48,930 involve sort of a paranormal phenomenon 848 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:51,390 in the sky and it relates again to the 849 00:38:00,200 --> 00:37:54,930 Cold War in the early 1960s when Fidel 850 00:38:02,810 --> 00:38:00,210 Castro came to power in Cuba now because 851 00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:02,820 you know Cuba was so was so close to the 852 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:05,310 US and still is obviously 90 miles and 853 00:38:10,610 --> 00:38:08,130 yeah and you know there was concern 854 00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:10,620 about the Russians having sort of you 855 00:38:13,820 --> 00:38:13,020 know satellite bases and things like 856 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:13,830 this on 857 00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:17,250 you know unclear itself now there's a 858 00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:18,840 guy or there was a guy named major 859 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:21,870 Edward Lansdale and he came up with some 860 00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:25,110 very weird plans and projects as to how 861 00:38:33,850 --> 00:38:29,750 to try and destabilize the government of 862 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:33,860 Fidel Castro and one of the ideas that 863 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:37,050 Lansdale came up with and I swear I'm 864 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:40,170 not making this up but he had this plan 865 00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:43,920 where aircraft would be flown into the 866 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:46,440 clouds over Cuba and they would have 867 00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:51,210 these powerful microphones which would 868 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:55,200 blast down to the ground voices saying 869 00:38:59,840 --> 00:38:56,490 this is the were basically saying this 870 00:39:02,030 --> 00:38:59,850 is the voice of Jesus you need to you 871 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:02,040 know sort of overthrow Castro and 872 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:05,460 embrace the world of the West and to try 873 00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:07,710 and achieve that the other part of the 874 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:10,140 project was to try and project huge 875 00:39:16,460 --> 00:39:14,010 images of Jesus onto clouds and so you'd 876 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:16,470 have the alleged voice of Jesus and you 877 00:39:21,380 --> 00:39:18,690 would have the projection of Jesus 878 00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:21,390 projected onto the clouds as a means to 879 00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:25,200 sort of convince the people of Cuba that 880 00:39:31,250 --> 00:39:28,440 a second coming was about was on the 881 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:31,260 horizon and you better come over to our 882 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:33,410 side and you better do something about 883 00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:36,510 Fidel Castro now the program was 884 00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:38,430 actually dropped because it was seen as 885 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:41,700 just too complicated and too technical 886 00:39:47,630 --> 00:39:45,090 to allow it to go ahead but this plan to 887 00:39:51,290 --> 00:39:47,640 sort of projects not as much hillier 888 00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:51,300 Holograms but images onto the clouds and 889 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:54,720 to blast you know that the so called 890 00:39:59,660 --> 00:39:57,450 voice of Jesus that was the plan and it 891 00:40:02,750 --> 00:39:59,670 was going to go ahead but as I said 892 00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:02,760 there was so many ifs and buts and in 893 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:04,380 the end they dropped the program but 894 00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:06,170 that was sort of one the really 895 00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,000 alternative programs which as I said he 896 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:11,520 wasn't a UFO program but it did involve 897 00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:13,770 you know like a supernatural image in 898 00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,220 the sky and had it worked I mean who 899 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:19,440 knows what pastry would have would it 900 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:21,330 have changed it you know that's right 901 00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:26,250 well so so interesting as far as uh as 902 00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:27,310 far as 903 00:40:34,109 --> 00:40:32,020 when they're the contact D movement here 904 00:40:34,589 --> 00:40:34,119 was there anything at all like that in 905 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:34,599 Russia 906 00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,130 did they have any people that claimed 907 00:40:41,220 --> 00:40:38,560 that they were contactees over there did 908 00:40:43,170 --> 00:40:41,230 you find any of that well that's a good 909 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:43,180 question and the answer to that question 910 00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:45,970 he's actually no the weren't really in 911 00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:48,609 the forties and fifties hardly anybody 912 00:40:55,319 --> 00:40:51,670 in the contactee movements in Russia at 913 00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:55,329 that time that was really you know sort 914 00:41:00,030 --> 00:40:58,240 of high-profile always been manipulated 915 00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:00,040 by the intelligence services it was 916 00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:04,630 primarily in the United States the UK 917 00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:07,510 and Australia now one of the more 918 00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:09,880 intriguing cases involves a guy named 919 00:41:16,589 --> 00:41:13,750 Orfeo Angelo Chi and he was sort of be 920 00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:16,599 like the second level of the contactees 921 00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:19,900 in the 50s when it all kicked off the we 922 00:41:24,839 --> 00:41:21,460 had the Flying Saucer phenomenon began 923 00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:24,849 in 47 with Kenneth Arnold then he was 924 00:41:29,010 --> 00:41:27,280 sort of round about 51 when people 925 00:41:31,319 --> 00:41:29,020 started to claim they'd seen these very 926 00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,329 human looking aliens known as the space 927 00:41:35,940 --> 00:41:34,480 brothers and without doubt you know 928 00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:35,950 whether you believe his stories or not 929 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:37,920 George Adamski was sort of the ultimate 930 00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:41,170 contactee but then you had sort of that 931 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:43,390 the second level of George Van Tassel 932 00:41:51,359 --> 00:41:48,430 and then yet Orfeo Angelo Chi excuse me 933 00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:51,369 and various other ones now the most 934 00:41:57,089 --> 00:41:55,119 interesting story is one of Orfeo Angelo 935 00:42:02,099 --> 00:41:57,099 Jean he was someone who claimed to have 936 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:02,109 had close encounters late at night in 937 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:05,650 Los Angeles in the early 1950s and again 938 00:42:12,540 --> 00:42:09,910 the the typical conversation revolved 939 00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,550 around how we should get rid of our 940 00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:14,640 nuclear weapons and all live together 941 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:16,480 otherwise the world's going to be 942 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:17,770 destroyed and so on 943 00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:19,450 and Angelo Chi was sort of quite 944 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:22,960 inspired by these claimed encounters to 945 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:24,730 go out there and sort of spread the word 946 00:42:29,819 --> 00:42:26,710 as we all need to live together and the 947 00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,829 Russians on so bad after all and again 948 00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:32,079 kind of like Adamski got he got a very 949 00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:34,300 large following what's particularly 950 00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:36,520 intriguing though is that one by his own 951 00:42:45,630 --> 00:42:41,280 admission on one occasion in the 1950s 952 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:45,640 Angelou she was essentially drugged by 953 00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:47,410 sort of like a mind-altering drug in the 954 00:42:53,790 --> 00:42:51,430 early 1950s and as he wrote it he wrote 955 00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:53,800 the story of himself he was interrogated 956 00:42:59,070 --> 00:42:56,440 by what he came to believe was somebody 957 00:43:01,530 --> 00:42:59,080 in US intelligence who wanted to know 958 00:43:03,930 --> 00:43:01,540 who these people in Russian intelligence 959 00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:03,940 were that it approached him and who had 960 00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,460 sort of pushed him to promote the 961 00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:09,040 Communist angle in his lectures and in 962 00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,360 his books you know they wanted him to 963 00:43:16,070 --> 00:43:12,880 talk about communism in his lectures 964 00:43:19,050 --> 00:43:16,080 they wanted to talk to write about 965 00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:19,060 communism in relation to aliens in his 966 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:21,700 books and American intelligence wanted 967 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:24,730 to know who it was that had hired him to 968 00:43:31,350 --> 00:43:28,710 do this now it turned out but Angelo Chi 969 00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,360 actually hadn't been recruited although 970 00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:33,040 American intelligence thought he had 971 00:43:38,220 --> 00:43:35,710 been but he actually fought against it 972 00:43:39,870 --> 00:43:38,230 he was not a communist at all but he 973 00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:39,880 didn't stop the Russians from sort of 974 00:43:45,690 --> 00:43:42,910 clandestinely saying a Orfeo you know 975 00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:45,700 you start talking about the Communist 976 00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:48,340 side of why you know the of the aliens 977 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:49,740 and so on you know we'll make it 978 00:43:54,810 --> 00:43:53,290 financially worth your time to do so 979 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:54,820 and to his credit you know he backed 980 00:44:01,680 --> 00:43:57,130 away and said not just no but he'll know 981 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,690 and an extensive file was opened on him 982 00:44:07,110 --> 00:44:04,000 but the FBI realized that he was really 983 00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:07,120 you know he wasn't sort of a guilty 984 00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:08,980 person he was someone caught up in this 985 00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:12,310 strange scenario where the Russians had 986 00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:14,080 approached him and wanted him to promote 987 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:18,910 communism from a lien perspective and so 988 00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:21,310 you know it's a very odd period this is 989 00:44:29,250 --> 00:44:25,150 still sort of 1950s mid to late 1950s 990 00:44:31,740 --> 00:44:29,260 when people like Adamski and Angelo Chi 991 00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:31,750 were being closely watched by the FBI 992 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:35,140 and equally they were a bit trying you 993 00:44:39,780 --> 00:44:36,130 know they're being pushed by the 994 00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:39,790 Russians to to try and influence the US 995 00:44:45,690 --> 00:44:42,580 public I had a population into thinking 996 00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,700 that oh my god you know communism is the 997 00:44:49,890 --> 00:44:47,040 way of the future and it's 998 00:44:53,010 --> 00:44:49,900 extraterrestrial and today looking back 999 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:53,020 it sounds really bizarre and weird but 1000 00:44:58,380 --> 00:44:54,970 for the Russians perspect 1001 00:45:01,920 --> 00:44:58,390 the the idea was that we really can 1002 00:45:05,010 --> 00:45:01,930 alter the mindset of the population and 1003 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:05,020 us intelligence were sort of quite 1004 00:45:10,109 --> 00:45:07,530 understandably trying to find a way to 1005 00:45:13,470 --> 00:45:10,119 completely obliterate this particular 1006 00:45:16,109 --> 00:45:13,480 program and the concern they had was 1007 00:45:18,660 --> 00:45:16,119 that the UFO subject has a huge 1008 00:45:20,340 --> 00:45:18,670 following you know it always has but 1009 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:20,350 back in the 50s you know a lot of those 1010 00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:22,690 books they sold six figures you know 1011 00:45:28,020 --> 00:45:25,990 regularly and so what we today might 1012 00:45:30,450 --> 00:45:28,030 think well that's like really weird you 1013 00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:30,460 know trying to make the other side think 1014 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:32,830 that aliens are communist but back then 1015 00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:35,770 it really was seen as like a viable toll 1016 00:45:42,330 --> 00:45:39,910 if you like to really scare the US and 1017 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:42,340 the UK and Australia into thinking 1018 00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:45,250 that's you know yes there's a real UFO 1019 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:48,550 phenomenon but it's not on your side you 1020 00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:51,490 know and and he was really just all 1021 00:45:57,420 --> 00:45:54,280 about sort of psychologically playing 1022 00:45:59,730 --> 00:45:57,430 with the mindset of the potential enemy 1023 00:46:02,460 --> 00:45:59,740 you know yeah with the amount I was just 1024 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:02,470 thinking of something kind of funny with 1025 00:46:07,230 --> 00:46:03,930 the amount of times that we've been 1026 00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:07,240 talking about communism and communist 1027 00:46:12,810 --> 00:46:09,880 today and we're using Skype over phone 1028 00:46:22,109 --> 00:46:12,820 and all that the NSA is probably 1029 00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:22,119 listening yeah yeah you know it's I do 1030 00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:24,070 have to say yeah spending as much time 1031 00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,800 in Russia as I have I did speak to a 1032 00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:28,720 number of people some people over there 1033 00:46:34,050 --> 00:46:31,750 there are some to speak English that I 1034 00:46:36,090 --> 00:46:34,060 was able to communicate well I don't 1035 00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:36,100 know any Russian I can just barely get 1036 00:46:42,650 --> 00:46:39,910 by but anyway I was surprised at how 1037 00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:42,660 many people I got into conversations and 1038 00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:45,280 talked about communism that actually 1039 00:46:51,540 --> 00:46:49,480 liked communism they I mean it's such a 1040 00:46:54,359 --> 00:46:51,550 bad word here it's almost like you know 1041 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:54,369 the word communist and communism makes 1042 00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:56,530 people shake in their boots but these 1043 00:47:00,690 --> 00:46:58,450 people that I spoke to over there said 1044 00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:00,700 hey you know food was better and you 1045 00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:02,830 know they and you know we weren't there 1046 00:47:07,710 --> 00:47:04,630 weren't people you know starving and 1047 00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:07,720 like they like there is now and you know 1048 00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:08,470 so 1049 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:10,750 I'm sure there are good points you know 1050 00:47:15,690 --> 00:47:13,170 but obviously it's it's it doesn't work 1051 00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:15,700 it didn't work there anyway you know 1052 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:19,119 it's still still on you and China yeah I 1053 00:47:23,970 --> 00:47:22,330 think you know you we can learn a lot 1054 00:47:26,130 --> 00:47:23,980 from sort of each other's cultures I 1055 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:26,140 mean for example you know I'm you can 1056 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:27,730 obviously tell from my voice no 1057 00:47:33,540 --> 00:47:31,330 originally from England you know and you 1058 00:47:35,339 --> 00:47:33,550 know I grew up in England as a kid and 1059 00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:35,349 teenager and through my twenties before 1060 00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:39,849 I moved over here but I mean you know 1061 00:47:46,530 --> 00:47:43,859 that the for example the British medical 1062 00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:46,540 insurance you know he's very different 1063 00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:49,990 to over here and I often see in the u.s. 1064 00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:53,740 that people refer to the the UK's 1065 00:48:00,089 --> 00:47:56,830 medical service as a socialized medicine 1066 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:00,099 or socialized insurance and just that 1067 00:48:04,170 --> 00:48:02,650 word socialized you know put the you 1068 00:48:06,810 --> 00:48:04,180 know raises the hairs on the back of 1069 00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:06,820 people I hate to sound like you know 1070 00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:09,280 we're all a bunch of sort of red flag 1071 00:48:16,020 --> 00:48:12,609 waving commies you know it's not like 1072 00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:16,030 that at all yes the yes the you know the 1073 00:48:23,130 --> 00:48:19,240 medical insurance program in the UK is 1074 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:23,140 very different to in the US but you know 1075 00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:26,530 it's not socialized medicine which 1076 00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:28,240 sounds just like you know something that 1077 00:48:35,579 --> 00:48:30,880 crawled out of the Kremlin you know it's 1078 00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:35,589 not and so you know this we can all sort 1079 00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:37,540 of learn I think from from each other 1080 00:48:44,609 --> 00:48:40,720 now you know I think I mean communism 1081 00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:44,619 does not work you know and I think you 1082 00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:49,030 know an enterprising economy and 1083 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:51,310 encouraging people you know to get out 1084 00:48:56,579 --> 00:48:54,730 there and and and achieve things in 1085 00:48:59,220 --> 00:48:56,589 lives you know not just personally but 1086 00:49:01,800 --> 00:48:59,230 also economically as well I think that 1087 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:01,810 that's a very good thing you know yeah 1088 00:49:06,329 --> 00:49:04,210 and then another thing that really grew 1089 00:49:07,859 --> 00:49:06,339 was the black market you know when 1090 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:07,869 there's communism there were people 1091 00:49:14,579 --> 00:49:11,890 still making money but you know not in a 1092 00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:14,589 legal way and that's that's what there's 1093 00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:15,880 a lot of things that grow out of that 1094 00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:18,880 you know in capitalism you know is not 1095 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:22,070 fault free either you know we have the 1096 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:25,130 the 1% elite and all that you know 1097 00:49:30,820 --> 00:49:27,890 making more money than you know CEOs 1098 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:30,830 making 300 times what a worker makes it 1099 00:49:34,780 --> 00:49:32,930 actually works on the product so there 1100 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:34,790 is a lot of things that could be tweaked 1101 00:49:40,510 --> 00:49:38,210 that's for sure you know well I'll tell 1102 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:40,520 you a funny story I mentioned how you 1103 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:43,490 know I've got several friends who were 1104 00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:46,090 Russians well I've also got several 1105 00:49:58,350 --> 00:49:49,070 friends who actually happen to be 1106 00:50:02,800 --> 00:49:58,360 Russian strippers right they've embraced 1107 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:02,810 capitalism with a capital C yeah yeah 1108 00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:05,810 well yeah it's an interesting culture 1109 00:50:10,930 --> 00:50:07,910 and money money is very important money 1110 00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:10,940 is and it's because lack of you know 1111 00:50:15,580 --> 00:50:13,040 growing up and atmosphere of a lack of 1112 00:50:17,770 --> 00:50:15,590 so money and material is very important 1113 00:50:20,050 --> 00:50:17,780 to to the culture I've seen that for 1114 00:50:21,940 --> 00:50:20,060 sure yeah and I think what's important 1115 00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:21,950 you know when it comes to this issue of 1116 00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:24,800 sort of Russian manipulation of the UFO 1117 00:50:31,150 --> 00:50:28,510 subject it's very easy to actually 1118 00:50:35,260 --> 00:50:31,160 manipulation people that manipulates 1119 00:50:36,970 --> 00:50:35,270 accusing people on a large scale you 1120 00:50:39,130 --> 00:50:36,980 know it doesn't take long for this sort 1121 00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:39,140 of a whole mindset to sort of get in 1122 00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,020 line when there's a threat or something 1123 00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:44,480 you know um it's kind of like you know 1124 00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:46,880 the issue of when you go to the airport 1125 00:50:51,730 --> 00:50:49,220 you take your shoes off well you know 1126 00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:51,740 that was that was him revolved around 1127 00:50:56,770 --> 00:50:54,640 you know one person who had that 1128 00:51:00,460 --> 00:50:56,780 potential bomb an issue which actually 1129 00:51:02,140 --> 00:51:00,470 didn't work you yet everybody goes to 1130 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:02,150 the airport without thinking takes their 1131 00:51:07,870 --> 00:51:04,250 shoes off in other words you know when 1132 00:51:11,110 --> 00:51:07,880 something happens we subconsciously or 1133 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:11,120 unconsciously get in line with it you 1134 00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:14,090 know and and that's a perfect example of 1135 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:16,760 it and I think that's what the Russians 1136 00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:19,970 were hoping for they were hoping for an 1137 00:51:26,820 --> 00:51:22,640 assumption that will become accepted 1138 00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:26,830 that you know that aliens are here and 1139 00:51:30,310 --> 00:51:28,670 you know they're on the side of the 1140 00:51:33,070 --> 00:51:30,320 Russians and that's why you had things 1141 00:51:35,860 --> 00:51:33,080 like the CIA's Robertson panel which was 1142 00:51:40,930 --> 00:51:35,870 created in the 50s to actually try 1143 00:51:44,530 --> 00:51:40,940 prevent that scenario from occurring 1144 00:51:47,950 --> 00:51:44,540 that the Robertson panel was this excuse 1145 00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:47,960 me this panel created in the late 50s 1146 00:51:54,910 --> 00:51:50,900 but which really came to the fore in the 1147 00:51:57,010 --> 00:51:54,920 19th in the in 1953 and the see I 1148 00:51:59,560 --> 00:51:57,020 realized that if they didn't sort of 1149 00:52:01,950 --> 00:51:59,570 intervene that more and more of these 1150 00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:01,960 bogus stories about you know 1151 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:04,310 extraterrestrial communists and so on 1152 00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:06,890 they didn't stop it but more and more 1153 00:52:12,070 --> 00:52:10,400 people would buy into the hysteria but 1154 00:52:13,540 --> 00:52:12,080 without thinking about it kind of again 1155 00:52:14,830 --> 00:52:13,550 like you know when you go to the airport 1156 00:52:18,250 --> 00:52:14,840 you just take your shoes off without 1157 00:52:21,940 --> 00:52:18,260 thinking and so the CIA came up with all 1158 00:52:25,060 --> 00:52:21,950 sorts of plots as a means to try and 1159 00:52:27,610 --> 00:52:25,070 destabilize the Russians UFO program and 1160 00:52:30,910 --> 00:52:27,620 I talked about that in the book well US 1161 00:52:34,990 --> 00:52:30,920 intelligence created fake stories of 1162 00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:35,000 crashed UFOs they basically created fake 1163 00:52:40,990 --> 00:52:37,580 stories saying that US intelligence had 1164 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:41,000 got crashed UFO materials and debris and 1165 00:52:46,990 --> 00:52:44,930 alien technology and they subtly seeded 1166 00:52:49,810 --> 00:52:47,000 that story into Russian intelligence to 1167 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:49,820 make it look like it had been stolen you 1168 00:52:54,130 --> 00:52:51,290 know the date had been stolen from the 1169 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:54,140 US and in reality you know the US 1170 00:52:59,170 --> 00:52:55,970 intelligence actually created these 1171 00:53:01,780 --> 00:52:59,180 stories to try and frighten the Kremlin 1172 00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:01,790 you know the Russian premiers and so on 1173 00:53:06,940 --> 00:53:04,280 to try and convince them that's you know 1174 00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:06,950 us the US government had got alien 1175 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:09,260 technology highly advanced technology 1176 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:11,930 and so you know the plan was to try and 1177 00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:14,090 frighten the Russians into thinking you 1178 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:16,250 know we've got highly advanced weaponry 1179 00:53:21,490 --> 00:53:18,530 that they hadn't got so became almost 1180 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:21,500 like a really weird game almost you know 1181 00:53:26,830 --> 00:53:24,290 between the two to try and you know so 1182 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:26,840 who could who could sort of best the 1183 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:29,090 other you know isn't that something 1184 00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:31,730 so we are going into break here in about 1185 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:34,730 one minute or so so do you think that 1186 00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:37,970 there's any UFO stories that either side 1187 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:40,880 either Russian or American are out there 1188 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:47,210 that can be debunked as as a you know 1189 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:49,130 one of these cases were 1190 00:53:52,990 --> 00:53:50,330 you know they were trying to influence 1191 00:53:55,180 --> 00:53:53,000 something that is standing that you're 1192 00:53:58,840 --> 00:53:55,190 aware of people call it like a UFO 1193 00:54:01,840 --> 00:53:58,850 incident that never was yeah I mean a 1194 00:54:04,330 --> 00:54:01,850 perfect example is an alleged UFO crash 1195 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:04,340 in the island of Spitsbergen just off 1196 00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:07,370 the coast of Norway in the early 1950s 1197 00:54:11,350 --> 00:54:09,470 and it's sort of like I guess it's like 1198 00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:11,360 Norway's version of Roswell you know 1199 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:15,260 it's a story of a crashed UFO now if you 1200 00:54:19,930 --> 00:54:17,570 go to the National Security Agency the 1201 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:19,940 NSA's websites and go to their UFO 1202 00:54:25,090 --> 00:54:22,610 section and they put some of their files 1203 00:54:26,980 --> 00:54:25,100 on UFOs on their websites there's 1204 00:54:30,090 --> 00:54:26,990 actually a section about this crashed 1205 00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:30,100 UFO story now somebody at the NSA a 1206 00:54:35,050 --> 00:54:33,110 circled the section on the Spitsbergen 1207 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:35,060 case and in big capital letters they've 1208 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:38,570 written the word plans now at that point 1209 00:54:42,670 --> 00:54:40,610 I talked about this in the book and I 1210 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:42,680 point out that we could be looking at 1211 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:45,890 the NSA having created and fabricated 1212 00:54:52,090 --> 00:54:48,290 this Spitsbergen story of a crashed UFO 1213 00:54:54,190 --> 00:54:52,100 or at the NSA found out it was a Russian 1214 00:54:57,130 --> 00:54:54,200 plant it's we just don't know which is 1215 00:54:59,770 --> 00:54:57,140 the truth but we've got the documents 1216 00:55:01,930 --> 00:54:59,780 showing that the NSA were clear on the 1217 00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:01,940 fact that this Spitsbergen crashed UFO 1218 00:55:08,830 --> 00:55:05,350 story of the early 50s was a plant now 1219 00:55:12,340 --> 00:55:08,840 this was clearly either created by US 1220 00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:12,350 intelligence to think the Russians you 1221 00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:13,730 know that made the Russians think that 1222 00:55:18,850 --> 00:55:15,470 we got highly advanced alien technology 1223 00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:18,860 or it was the other way around but 1224 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:20,150 that's thought to get back to your 1225 00:55:26,410 --> 00:55:22,850 question that story but the Spitsbergen 1226 00:55:30,460 --> 00:55:26,420 UFO case is still sort of champion to 1227 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:30,470 this day seventy years almost after it 1228 00:55:34,990 --> 00:55:32,810 allegedly occurred and a lot of people 1229 00:55:37,660 --> 00:55:35,000 in ufology still believe that is a 1230 00:55:40,090 --> 00:55:37,670 legitimate case now maybe it is but when 1231 00:55:42,310 --> 00:55:40,100 you see official documents referring to 1232 00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,320 it as a plant then you actually have to 1233 00:55:47,110 --> 00:55:44,960 wonder you know was this a Russian 1234 00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:47,120 program or it was it an American 1235 00:55:52,270 --> 00:55:49,990 response to the the Russian program 1236 00:55:55,270 --> 00:55:52,280 fascinating okay we're going into the 1237 00:55:58,090 --> 00:55:55,280 break this is Martin Willis with podcast 1238 00:56:00,100 --> 00:55:58,100 UFO my guest is Nick Redfern and we'll 1239 00:56:02,849 --> 00:56:00,110 be right back and just a couple of 1240 00:56:08,109 --> 00:56:05,980 that's alright welcome back of this is 1241 00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,119 Martin Willis and my guest tonight is 1242 00:56:12,790 --> 00:56:09,440 Nick Redfern 1243 00:56:16,210 --> 00:56:12,800 and we were talking just before the 1244 00:56:17,980 --> 00:56:16,220 break about the Spitzberg I think that's 1245 00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:17,990 what you called it the crash UFO case 1246 00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:20,990 and how that was probably just a 1247 00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:23,839 formulated thing to to actually 1248 00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:29,599 manipulate it was the u.s. you actually 1249 00:56:36,579 --> 00:56:31,760 recover the document through a four you 1250 00:56:38,770 --> 00:56:36,589 did you 400 an act and actually the FBI 1251 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:38,780 have now placed it on its own website 1252 00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:40,970 official website if you go to the I 1253 00:56:45,730 --> 00:56:44,000 think it's NSA gov but if it isn't if he 1254 00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:45,740 just you know just type in National 1255 00:56:50,620 --> 00:56:47,599 Security Agency you'll find their 1256 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:50,630 official site and on that site there are 1257 00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:52,970 a number of the files that they've 1258 00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,080 release through the Freedom of 1259 00:56:59,290 --> 00:56:56,000 Information Act which admittedly isn't a 1260 00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,300 gigantic amount but they do have a UFO X 1261 00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:01,760 X their section now one of those 1262 00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:05,089 particular documents in the UFO section 1263 00:57:11,770 --> 00:57:08,450 of the NSA files you have this documents 1264 00:57:15,370 --> 00:57:11,780 talking about an alleged UFO crash in 1265 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:15,380 the early 1950s 1952 actually in a 1266 00:57:21,849 --> 00:57:17,930 little island called Spitsbergen off the 1267 00:57:23,620 --> 00:57:21,859 coast of Norway and somebody in the NSA 1268 00:57:24,910 --> 00:57:23,630 we don't know because the person didn't 1269 00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:24,920 leave their name but they just they 1270 00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:29,839 circled that particular story with a pen 1271 00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:32,480 or a marker and then next to it in 1272 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:35,510 capital letters they written plans so as 1273 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:37,010 I point out in the book there's two 1274 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:39,890 possibilities either this was a planted 1275 00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:43,130 story by the u.s. to try and convince 1276 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:46,160 the Russians that we'd found highly 1277 00:57:50,740 --> 00:57:48,410 advanced alien technology on the island 1278 00:57:52,930 --> 00:57:50,750 of Spitsbergen or it was the exact 1279 00:57:56,349 --> 00:57:52,940 opposite it was a planted story by the 1280 00:57:59,160 --> 00:57:56,359 Russians to try and convince us that the 1281 00:58:02,200 --> 00:57:59,170 Russians have got alien technology but 1282 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:02,210 the what's intriguing and this sort of 1283 00:58:07,660 --> 00:58:04,970 gets to the heart of the book is that 1284 00:58:11,260 --> 00:58:07,670 these stories were so sort of persuasive 1285 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:11,270 that even to this day almost 70 years 1286 00:58:16,359 --> 00:58:13,970 later which was like 68 years 67 years 1287 00:58:18,789 --> 00:58:16,369 later people still you 1288 00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:18,799 talk about the Spitsbergen UFO case and 1289 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:21,200 that sort of demonstrates the sort of 1290 00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:23,450 the Aloha and the strength that these 1291 00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:26,420 stories still have you know really well 1292 00:58:31,299 --> 00:58:28,430 Nick I just want to let you know I I 1293 00:58:36,339 --> 00:58:31,309 just posted the call in the callin 1294 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:36,349 number up on the site because I think 1295 00:58:40,029 --> 00:58:38,450 that we might get a few calls tonight so 1296 00:58:41,980 --> 00:58:40,039 Maz will start taking them early so 1297 00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:41,990 basically how it just to let the 1298 00:58:46,809 --> 00:58:43,430 listener out there know if you're 1299 00:58:49,390 --> 00:58:46,819 calling in please mute your program that 1300 00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:49,400 you're listening to when you call in and 1301 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:52,480 I'm gonna put you on hold basically 1302 00:58:57,339 --> 00:58:54,890 until I announce you 1303 00:58:59,410 --> 00:58:57,349 you'll just be just waiting and you'll 1304 00:59:01,900 --> 00:58:59,420 hear the show live it's a little 1305 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:01,910 different about 30 seconds off from what 1306 00:59:09,460 --> 00:59:03,650 you hear live there's a difference of 1307 00:59:12,759 --> 00:59:09,470 about that so the the other thing I was 1308 00:59:15,489 --> 00:59:12,769 thinking about Nick there's been some 1309 00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:15,499 the over the years is really unique and 1310 00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:20,240 and famous Russian cases and I tried to 1311 00:59:26,370 --> 00:59:21,920 do some research when I was there is 1312 00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,380 that is that anything that you crossed 1313 00:59:31,019 --> 00:59:28,400 research while you were looking into 1314 00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:31,029 this like some of the UFO events and in 1315 00:59:36,579 --> 00:59:34,160 really crazy encounters in Russia that 1316 00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:36,589 is I mean that's a large landmass that's 1317 00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,569 yeah you know well yeah actually that's 1318 00:59:43,150 --> 00:59:40,400 a good point because this is where 1319 00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:43,160 things kind of get murky but on both 1320 00:59:47,769 --> 00:59:45,470 sides you know the west and the east you 1321 00:59:51,339 --> 00:59:47,779 know I think if you look at the the 1322 00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:51,349 issue of the Russians creating and 1323 00:59:56,499 --> 00:59:54,049 fabricating UFO stories as a means to 1324 00:59:59,049 --> 00:59:56,509 promote communism in the West and so on 1325 01:00:02,470 --> 00:59:59,059 at the height of the Cold War inevitably 1326 01:00:04,359 --> 01:00:02,480 sort of causes you to wonder well how 1327 01:00:07,479 --> 01:00:04,369 many of these stories that we think are 1328 01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:07,489 real were actually part of this 1329 01:00:12,819 --> 01:00:09,920 disinformation psychological warfare 1330 01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:12,829 program and and we're how many were the 1331 01:00:16,690 --> 01:00:14,720 real thing and I think that's an 1332 01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:16,700 important thing it sort of opens like a 1333 01:00:19,779 --> 01:00:18,799 Pandora's box you know it's like which 1334 01:00:23,229 --> 01:00:19,789 are the real ones 1335 01:00:25,890 --> 01:00:23,239 and which are the bogus ones you know 1336 01:00:29,499 --> 01:00:25,900 put together for a different angle now 1337 01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:29,509 my I guess my answer to that question is 1338 01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:29,990 you know 1339 01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:32,480 a lot of the cases from the 50s and 60s 1340 01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:34,820 where Russia was an extremely closed 1341 01:00:41,950 --> 01:00:39,200 country you know it's very difficult to 1342 01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,960 say which cases which were genuine and 1343 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:44,240 which were not but to sort of go back to 1344 01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:46,490 the beginning you know the most 1345 01:00:53,830 --> 01:00:50,000 important thing is that would that we 1346 01:00:56,170 --> 01:00:53,840 recognize that the this issue of use in 1347 01:00:58,180 --> 01:00:56,180 the UFO subject was born out of the fact 1348 01:01:00,280 --> 01:00:58,190 that both sides the Russians and the 1349 01:01:02,890 --> 01:01:00,290 Americans realized that there was a 1350 01:01:04,900 --> 01:01:02,900 genuine phenomenon and that that's an 1351 01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:04,910 important thing you know it doesn't 1352 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:08,510 matter you know if the Russian and the 1353 01:01:13,180 --> 01:01:10,850 Russians are and in return the US were 1354 01:01:18,010 --> 01:01:13,190 fabricating UFO stories to try and beat 1355 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:18,020 the other side psychologically but the 1356 01:01:22,540 --> 01:01:20,450 fact still exists that there is a 1357 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:22,550 phenomenon I mean to sort of just 1358 01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:25,730 quickly go aside the reason why I got in 1359 01:01:30,790 --> 01:01:28,880 involved in the UFO subject wasn't 1360 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:30,800 because I had my own encounter but my 1361 01:01:36,550 --> 01:01:33,650 dad was the Brit was a radar mechanic in 1362 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:36,560 the British Royal Air Force and he was 1363 01:01:41,830 --> 01:01:40,010 involved in several UFO incidents which 1364 01:01:44,849 --> 01:01:41,840 was still at the height of the Cold War 1365 01:01:52,060 --> 01:01:44,859 where strange high-flying 1366 01:01:55,330 --> 01:01:52,070 crack approaching the the UK land that 1367 01:01:58,690 --> 01:01:55,340 the the side of the country the east 1368 01:02:01,180 --> 01:01:58,700 side of the country and basically nobody 1369 01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:01,190 knew what this phenomenon was the first 1370 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:02,690 thought was he's gotta be the Russians 1371 01:02:07,770 --> 01:02:04,970 but these objects were flying at 1372 01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:07,780 extraordinary speeds and Heights and 1373 01:02:13,450 --> 01:02:10,070 even performing like for example 1374 01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:13,460 hovering at 20,000 feet this went on for 1375 01:02:19,090 --> 01:02:16,460 three nights and fighter planes were 1376 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:19,100 sent up to intercept them and pilots 1377 01:02:24,609 --> 01:02:21,650 reported seen these in some cases like 1378 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:24,619 classic 1950s flying saucer type craft 1379 01:02:31,390 --> 01:02:28,730 in other cases like bright lights and at 1380 01:02:34,359 --> 01:02:31,400 the end of these encounters everybody by 1381 01:02:36,270 --> 01:02:34,369 the pilots the ground crew the radar 1382 01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:36,280 operators and people like my dad the 1383 01:02:42,310 --> 01:02:40,100 radar mechanics were all taken into a 1384 01:02:43,450 --> 01:02:42,320 room and told you won't talk about this 1385 01:02:45,580 --> 01:02:43,460 you know this is 1386 01:02:48,220 --> 01:02:45,590 security my dad didn't tell me till I 1387 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:48,230 was about 12 so there's no doubt that 1388 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:51,170 there's a real phenomenon but the the 1389 01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:54,410 tricky issue if you like or the question 1390 01:02:59,230 --> 01:02:56,270 to go back to your question when it 1391 01:03:02,560 --> 01:02:59,240 comes to these Russian cases how do we 1392 01:03:06,610 --> 01:03:02,570 know which ones were the real cases and 1393 01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:06,620 how many were you know the ones used as 1394 01:03:13,620 --> 01:03:09,590 a means to try and you know provoke the 1395 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:13,630 idea that aliens are really commies now 1396 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:18,170 you know when you put it like that it's 1397 01:03:24,670 --> 01:03:22,010 difficult to give an answer you know but 1398 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:24,680 I mean certainly I'm sure that's a 1399 01:03:29,740 --> 01:03:27,290 number of cases in Russia are genuine in 1400 01:03:31,150 --> 01:03:29,750 the same way that they are elsewhere you 1401 01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:31,160 know I'm sure there's been hundreds 1402 01:03:37,570 --> 01:03:34,810 maybe even thousands of genuine Russian 1403 01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:37,580 incidents but you know when you've got 1404 01:03:42,370 --> 01:03:40,160 the Kremlin thinking wow you know we can 1405 01:03:44,890 --> 01:03:42,380 do something with this then it really 1406 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:44,900 does become hazy as to you know where 1407 01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:47,930 the where the lines are blurred right 1408 01:03:57,850 --> 01:03:54,290 right I wonder when the use of radar 1409 01:03:59,410 --> 01:03:57,860 began in the military I I just did a 1410 01:04:02,620 --> 01:03:59,420 quick search on that trying to figure 1411 01:04:05,410 --> 01:04:02,630 out exactly because I'm you know I'm 1412 01:04:10,930 --> 01:04:05,420 wondering if radar was used you know 1413 01:04:12,970 --> 01:04:10,940 prior to you know way back where yeah 1414 01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:12,980 well radar was used in the Second World 1415 01:04:15,370 --> 01:04:13,370 War 1416 01:04:17,950 --> 01:04:15,380 that's when it was not of developed but 1417 01:04:20,530 --> 01:04:17,960 it you know fifties and sixties onwards 1418 01:04:23,710 --> 01:04:20,540 was when it really kind of took off 1419 01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:23,720 because there was this you know in the 1420 01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:25,910 post Second World War era everything 1421 01:04:30,370 --> 01:04:28,430 changed because up until then it would 1422 01:04:33,340 --> 01:04:30,380 be you know all the battles all the wars 1423 01:04:35,710 --> 01:04:33,350 were fought by soldiers you know with 1424 01:04:38,050 --> 01:04:35,720 tanks with guns with rifles with 1425 01:04:42,430 --> 01:04:38,060 grenades and the early fifties 1426 01:04:44,350 --> 01:04:42,440 everything changed when every nation on 1427 01:04:47,110 --> 01:04:44,360 the planet could be wiped out you know 1428 01:04:50,380 --> 01:04:47,120 by atomic weapons and and it was like a 1429 01:04:53,580 --> 01:04:50,390 totally different world and so that was 1430 01:04:56,740 --> 01:04:53,590 the main reason for you know creating 1431 01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:56,750 high-powered highly advanced radar 1432 01:04:59,979 --> 01:04:57,650 because 1433 01:05:02,769 --> 01:04:59,989 it would at least give us some sort of 1434 01:05:04,479 --> 01:05:02,779 indication of what's coming our hunk on 1435 01:05:05,710 --> 01:05:04,489 the horizon not that he would you know 1436 01:05:07,989 --> 01:05:05,720 for the most part you'd be able to 1437 01:05:11,079 --> 01:05:07,999 prevent you but at least you'd know what 1438 01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:11,089 was happening mm-hmm so you know in the 1439 01:05:17,049 --> 01:05:13,609 Cold War from the early 50s onwards you 1440 01:05:18,999 --> 01:05:17,059 know understanding and detecting you 1441 01:05:21,219 --> 01:05:19,009 know sort of Russian bombers coming over 1442 01:05:22,900 --> 01:05:21,229 the horizon or whatever that was vital 1443 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:22,910 because he wasn't just a case of trying 1444 01:05:27,969 --> 01:05:25,130 to blow him out the sky you know they're 1445 01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:27,979 carrying atomic bombs which could wipe 1446 01:05:33,370 --> 01:05:30,710 out a city and vaporize you know the 1447 01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:33,380 entire population of a US city you know 1448 01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:36,529 that's right that's right and you know 1449 01:05:41,229 --> 01:05:39,680 it just seems to me I'm sure you've 1450 01:05:43,569 --> 01:05:41,239 probably seen a little bit on the news 1451 01:05:44,950 --> 01:05:43,579 here and there and there's also if 1452 01:05:46,539 --> 01:05:44,960 anyone's watching this series on the 1453 01:05:49,989 --> 01:05:46,549 History Channel unidentified you'll see 1454 01:05:52,839 --> 01:05:49,999 that there's there's more technology 1455 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:52,849 that we have with the more technology 1456 01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:54,410 that we have it seems like we're having 1457 01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:57,710 more military sightings you know and I 1458 01:06:01,870 --> 01:05:59,839 think you know technology is only going 1459 01:06:03,670 --> 01:06:01,880 to grow as far as you know the different 1460 01:06:08,289 --> 01:06:03,680 spectrums and and all that that we 1461 01:06:11,079 --> 01:06:08,299 actually are able to detect but now you 1462 01:06:13,809 --> 01:06:11,089 know seems more than ever that we're 1463 01:06:15,789 --> 01:06:13,819 seeing we're seeing a lot more and you 1464 01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:15,799 know that's kind of what the question 1465 01:06:19,900 --> 01:06:18,079 was leading up to it about radar well 1466 01:06:22,150 --> 01:06:19,910 you know well that's an interesting 1467 01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:22,160 question because all this interesting 1468 01:06:27,459 --> 01:06:25,249 issue because when you look at the UFO 1469 01:06:29,799 --> 01:06:27,469 phenomenon particularly today you know 1470 01:06:31,890 --> 01:06:29,809 there's a lot of UFO activity going on 1471 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:31,900 the government sort of starting to 1472 01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:35,410 release information here and there and 1473 01:06:40,329 --> 01:06:38,569 it's all occurring at the same time when 1474 01:06:43,809 --> 01:06:40,339 the world is in pretty much a very 1475 01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:43,819 dangerous state and you know so you've 1476 01:06:48,430 --> 01:06:45,680 got on the one side you have people who 1477 01:06:51,099 --> 01:06:48,440 think that's well there's more and more 1478 01:06:53,380 --> 01:06:51,109 UFO encounters because they're getting 1479 01:06:55,509 --> 01:06:53,390 prepared to prevent us from you know 1480 01:06:58,989 --> 01:06:55,519 destroying the entire planet or whatever 1481 01:07:01,839 --> 01:06:58,999 which is one intriguing theory you know 1482 01:07:04,599 --> 01:07:01,849 and and the other theory of course is 1483 01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:04,609 that well are these actually real UFOs 1484 01:07:11,180 --> 01:07:07,729 or are they highly advanced technologies 1485 01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:11,190 of the military you know which 1486 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:13,290 nation or maybe it's a combination of 1487 01:07:19,790 --> 01:07:16,290 the two you know for the most part the 1488 01:07:21,380 --> 01:07:19,800 UFO phenomenon kind of doesn't you know 1489 01:07:23,329 --> 01:07:21,390 we don't we've never had kind of that 1490 01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:23,339 day of the earth The Day the Earth Stood 1491 01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:25,890 Still scenario you know where a UFO 1492 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:28,260 lands and we're told you know you either 1493 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:30,810 lay down yin yolks or we'll do it for 1494 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:32,970 you you know that's never happened but 1495 01:07:38,750 --> 01:07:35,450 it could happen you know it could happen 1496 01:07:42,589 --> 01:07:38,760 and I think it's important to note that 1497 01:07:44,540 --> 01:07:42,599 and but it's also to note that the more 1498 01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:44,550 and more that our technology develops 1499 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:46,980 the more more difficult it becomes to 1500 01:07:54,620 --> 01:07:51,210 differentiate between a real UFO and 1501 01:07:58,430 --> 01:07:54,630 something that might be you know just 1502 01:08:01,640 --> 01:07:58,440 coming off the I guess off the you know 1503 01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:01,650 the the plans where something something 1504 01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:03,599 really strange has been developed you 1505 01:08:09,620 --> 01:08:07,650 know and people assume it's a UFO in 1506 01:08:11,870 --> 01:08:09,630 terms of being an alien spaceship so I 1507 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:11,880 think you know I think in today's world 1508 01:08:17,180 --> 01:08:14,130 there's two things going on there are 1509 01:08:19,309 --> 01:08:17,190 highly advanced technologies of various 1510 01:08:21,950 --> 01:08:19,319 militaries around the world and there 1511 01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:21,960 still is a genuine UFO phenomenon that 1512 01:08:25,670 --> 01:08:24,089 nobody I think evening government 1513 01:08:28,579 --> 01:08:25,680 probably doesn't really have a handle on 1514 01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:28,589 what they are or where they're from 1515 01:08:33,170 --> 01:08:30,449 you know I agree I've said that a number 1516 01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:33,180 of times on on the show would take and 1517 01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:35,370 call it Collins if anyone wants to give 1518 01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:37,290 us a ring ask Nick a question that 1519 01:08:47,090 --> 01:08:42,960 number 603 967 403 Oh getting back to 1520 01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:47,100 your the theme of your book how six did 1521 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:50,719 they ever have any measurable success in 1522 01:08:56,749 --> 01:08:54,210 converting people to communism anything 1523 01:09:00,079 --> 01:08:56,759 that was ever documented in any of the 1524 01:09:01,910 --> 01:09:00,089 research you looked at well that's a 1525 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:01,920 good question I mean one of the things I 1526 01:09:05,870 --> 01:09:03,930 talked about in the book it's an 1527 01:09:07,550 --> 01:09:05,880 organization that some of the listeners 1528 01:09:10,099 --> 01:09:07,560 may have heard of it's not sort of as 1529 01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:10,109 high-profile as it was in the fifties 1530 01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,759 and sixties but it was called the 1531 01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:13,440 atheria Society 1532 01:09:22,660 --> 01:09:18,799 actually an English group but their 1533 01:09:25,129 --> 01:09:22,670 headquarters now is in Los Angeles and 1534 01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:25,139 they were sort of like 1535 01:09:30,289 --> 01:09:28,170 a group before contactees and and for 1536 01:09:32,919 --> 01:09:30,299 people who'd had Encounters Close 1537 01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:32,929 Encounters and he was very much sort of 1538 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:35,730 sort of bordered upon like a religion 1539 01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:40,170 almost now according to the atheria 1540 01:09:45,379 --> 01:09:43,440 Society many of the members that 1541 01:09:47,629 --> 01:09:45,389 actually had sort of face to face very 1542 01:09:50,209 --> 01:09:47,639 human looking aliens and in some cases 1543 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:50,219 you know there was this issue of how we 1544 01:09:57,020 --> 01:09:52,770 need to sort of turn towards communism 1545 01:09:59,030 --> 01:09:57,030 and so on now in the late 1950s an arm 1546 01:10:00,620 --> 01:09:59,040 of the British police force called 1547 01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:00,630 Special Branch which was like the 1548 01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:02,489 Intelligence Division of the British 1549 01:10:06,140 --> 01:10:03,210 police force 1550 01:10:07,910 --> 01:10:06,150 I opened a file on the Aetherius Society 1551 01:10:10,879 --> 01:10:07,920 secretly and we know that because the 1552 01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:10,889 file has now been Declassified into the 1553 01:10:15,950 --> 01:10:13,730 public domain but back in the late 50s 1554 01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:15,960 members of the affair at the Aetherius 1555 01:10:22,939 --> 01:10:18,570 Society would go out into the streets of 1556 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:22,949 London and talk about how we need to get 1557 01:10:27,010 --> 01:10:24,810 rid of our atomic weapons and live 1558 01:10:30,770 --> 01:10:27,020 alongside the Russians in a friendly way 1559 01:10:34,129 --> 01:10:30,780 and so on now a kind of light with 1560 01:10:35,810 --> 01:10:34,139 George Adamski special branch probably 1561 01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:35,820 wouldn't have bothered if the group was 1562 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:37,739 just three or four people but it wasn't 1563 01:10:42,530 --> 01:10:39,650 it was actually sort of a quite a 1564 01:10:44,510 --> 01:10:42,540 high-profile organization which was 1565 01:10:47,570 --> 01:10:44,520 saying you know we need to drop out 1566 01:10:50,419 --> 01:10:47,580 atomic weapons and so on so Special 1567 01:10:53,450 --> 01:10:50,429 Branch would clandestinely sit in the 1568 01:10:55,070 --> 01:10:53,460 audience is at their conferences and 1569 01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:55,080 lectures and again we know that through 1570 01:10:58,609 --> 01:10:56,810 the files which have been officially 1571 01:11:01,669 --> 01:10:58,619 declassify which sort of begs the 1572 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:01,679 question how many conferences today you 1573 01:11:06,770 --> 01:11:04,170 know have people sitting in the audience 1574 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:06,780 oh just there you know to collect data 1575 01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:08,610 for the government I think you know it's 1576 01:11:14,689 --> 01:11:11,489 probably going on all the time but I was 1577 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:14,699 able to get a hold of the Aetherius 1578 01:11:21,189 --> 01:11:17,730 Society file put together by Special 1579 01:11:24,260 --> 01:11:21,199 Branch the British police force and that 1580 01:11:26,060 --> 01:11:24,270 particular file runs to about 70 pages 1581 01:11:28,459 --> 01:11:26,070 and he talks about how they sat in the 1582 01:11:29,870 --> 01:11:28,469 audience and how you know there's a lot 1583 01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:29,880 of debate at the lectures and the 1584 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:32,460 conference is about should we get rid of 1585 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:35,130 our nukes and so on what's particularly 1586 01:11:42,260 --> 01:11:39,210 notable is that after the Aetherius 1587 01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:42,270 society sort of bought into this angle 1588 01:11:47,690 --> 01:11:44,040 of you know getting rid of our nukes 1589 01:11:51,170 --> 01:11:47,700 many of the people who were members of 1590 01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:51,180 the atheria society took part in protest 1591 01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:56,810 matches in the in the 50s and 60s 1592 01:12:01,280 --> 01:11:59,520 essentially telling the UK people that 1593 01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:01,290 hey you know we need to get rid of our 1594 01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:04,770 nukes and many of the atheria society 1595 01:12:10,430 --> 01:12:07,050 peoples went on these marches and they 1596 01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:10,440 got a lot of feedback and coverage so 1597 01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:12,770 you know this is a perfect example 1598 01:12:17,930 --> 01:12:15,330 another example but outside of the US 1599 01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:17,940 but in you know in the UK they obviously 1600 01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:20,130 you know where the UK and the US are 1601 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:21,890 friends and we work together you're on 1602 01:12:28,670 --> 01:12:23,610 intelligence and national security 1603 01:12:32,620 --> 01:12:28,680 issues which is good but during that 1604 01:12:35,950 --> 01:12:32,630 period the atheria society were 1605 01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:35,960 perceived by British intelligence as 1606 01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:38,930 potential threats because of their 1607 01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:41,910 lectures their conferences and talking 1608 01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:45,060 about you know the UK needs to sort of 1609 01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:47,520 back away from all this and what the 1610 01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:48,960 Russians and Americans want to do is 1611 01:12:54,170 --> 01:12:50,730 their business but we need to stay out 1612 01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:54,180 of it and and so that's why a file was 1613 01:12:58,940 --> 01:12:56,010 opened on them you know and so in that 1614 01:13:01,070 --> 01:12:58,950 sense that really that program did work 1615 01:13:04,490 --> 01:13:01,080 in the sense that you had this group 1616 01:13:07,460 --> 01:13:04,500 that really was sort of saying you know 1617 01:13:11,210 --> 01:13:07,470 that one of our agendas is to try and 1618 01:13:14,260 --> 01:13:11,220 you know get rid of nukes and that did 1619 01:13:20,180 --> 01:13:14,270 work you know well that is something now 1620 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:20,190 how what part of the Russian government 1621 01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:23,130 was involved in in this in particular 1622 01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:27,090 was the KGB part of this yeah well I 1623 01:13:29,930 --> 01:13:29,400 mean it was the KGB at the height of the 1624 01:13:32,060 --> 01:13:29,940 Cold War 1625 01:13:35,810 --> 01:13:32,070 now although obviously Russia still has 1626 01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:35,820 an Intelligence Agency KGB by that name 1627 01:13:41,210 --> 01:13:38,090 doesn't actually exist anymore but 1628 01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:41,220 basically was exactly the same you know 1629 01:13:47,480 --> 01:13:44,730 in the US you got the FBI which handles 1630 01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:47,490 intelligence issues domestically within 1631 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:49,760 the United States and the CIA is 1632 01:13:54,050 --> 01:13:52,410 responsible for operating 1633 01:13:56,810 --> 01:13:54,060 outside of the US in terms of 1634 01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,820 intelligence and the NSA are sort of the 1635 01:14:00,800 --> 01:13:58,560 eavesdroppers you know they sort of do 1636 01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:00,810 all the spying and all they used to and 1637 01:14:05,630 --> 01:14:03,090 they still do that today but a lot of it 1638 01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:05,640 now is sort of focusing on social media 1639 01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:09,000 like Twitter and Facebook and you know 1640 01:14:14,060 --> 01:14:11,400 just picking information out like that 1641 01:14:16,970 --> 01:14:14,070 and certainly in the height of the 1642 01:14:20,170 --> 01:14:16,980 height of the Cold War with the KGB I 1643 01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:20,180 mean they were the primary ones who were 1644 01:14:24,980 --> 01:14:22,890 working to put these programs together 1645 01:14:27,770 --> 01:14:24,990 and this involved things like what's 1646 01:14:30,710 --> 01:14:27,780 known as psychological warfare where you 1647 01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:30,720 basically you create fake stories and 1648 01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:33,570 you seed them into the you know the 1649 01:14:38,660 --> 01:14:36,840 world of the enemy so to speak and and 1650 01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:38,670 the enemy doesn't realize they're being 1651 01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:43,140 fed bogus tales so and you also have 1652 01:14:50,420 --> 01:14:46,440 disinformation where for example stalk 1653 01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:50,430 genuine material is kind of manipulated 1654 01:14:55,610 --> 01:14:53,130 and altered so nobody really knows what 1655 01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:55,620 the real picture is and you know people 1656 01:15:00,560 --> 01:14:57,570 who work in the field of disinformation 1657 01:15:03,770 --> 01:15:00,570 are very good very skilled at creating 1658 01:15:06,980 --> 01:15:03,780 fake stories that look to be the real 1659 01:15:10,730 --> 01:15:06,990 thing so it was like I said early was 1660 01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:10,740 sort of like a strange quiet hidden war 1661 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:13,920 between the intelligence sources in the 1662 01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:16,290 Russia primary in Russia primarily the 1663 01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:20,880 KGB and in the u.s. the CIA FBI and NSA 1664 01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:23,490 and and it really was kind of like it 1665 01:15:28,670 --> 01:15:25,290 like a what you call like an op moonship 1666 01:15:30,710 --> 01:15:28,680 situation where you know how can we 1667 01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:30,720 trump the other side you know how can 1668 01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:32,610 the other one Trump aside the other side 1669 01:15:38,990 --> 01:15:35,580 and and come up with the the wildest 1670 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:39,000 story that'll really worry you know the 1671 01:15:42,890 --> 01:15:40,650 people in the Kremlin or little worried 1672 01:15:45,770 --> 01:15:42,900 people in the Pentagon you know so so it 1673 01:15:48,530 --> 01:15:45,780 was going on on all the time you know 1674 01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:48,540 but the UFO program was one of many I 1675 01:15:52,970 --> 01:15:50,490 mean just to sort of go off track a 1676 01:15:54,740 --> 01:15:52,980 little bit one of the things I talk 1677 01:15:57,920 --> 01:15:54,750 about with some of the earlier other 1678 01:16:00,710 --> 01:15:57,930 bizarre programs that the CRS - excuse 1679 01:16:05,570 --> 01:16:00,720 me that the KGB came up with as a means 1680 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:05,580 to try and sort of worry and sort of 1681 01:16:08,420 --> 01:16:06,330 create angle 1682 01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:08,430 within the US government one of these 1683 01:16:15,530 --> 01:16:11,760 stories which was totally fabricated was 1684 01:16:18,440 --> 01:16:15,540 the KGB agents spread rumors to u.s. 1685 01:16:20,810 --> 01:16:18,450 intelligence that a number of atomic 1686 01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,820 bombs this is in the early fifties a 1687 01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:22,080 number of atomic bombs have been 1688 01:16:27,380 --> 01:16:25,290 smuggled into the u.s. somewhere in the 1689 01:16:30,650 --> 01:16:27,390 region like nine or ten atomic bombs and 1690 01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:30,660 they've been hidden in various US city 1691 01:16:37,310 --> 01:16:34,440 like New York Los Angeles Boston and so 1692 01:16:39,620 --> 01:16:37,320 on as Las Vegas Dallas and so on in the 1693 01:16:42,620 --> 01:16:39,630 and the FBI was sort of quite 1694 01:16:45,530 --> 01:16:42,630 understandably pretty much terrified you 1695 01:16:47,980 --> 01:16:45,540 know the idea that major cities in the 1696 01:16:52,190 --> 01:16:47,990 United States had you know really 1697 01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:52,200 powerful atomic bombs just ready to be 1698 01:16:57,380 --> 01:16:55,530 primed and and detonated you know knew 1699 01:16:59,210 --> 01:16:57,390 millions and millions killed you know 1700 01:17:02,600 --> 01:16:59,220 and the atmosphere just filled with 1701 01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:02,610 radiation now it turned out but after 1702 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:05,220 four or five months of looking into this 1703 01:17:11,300 --> 01:17:08,370 the FBI realized that this story was 1704 01:17:14,570 --> 01:17:11,310 totally bogus that there were no atomic 1705 01:17:16,910 --> 01:17:14,580 bombs have been smuggled into the United 1706 01:17:20,390 --> 01:17:16,920 States at all by the Russians 1707 01:17:23,330 --> 01:17:20,400 but the Russians successfully for a 1708 01:17:25,550 --> 01:17:23,340 while really did sort of have the the 1709 01:17:27,970 --> 01:17:25,560 Russian ask you had they at the FBI you 1710 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:27,980 know their head spinning with fear that 1711 01:17:33,290 --> 01:17:30,810 how could we find these bombs you know 1712 01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:33,300 how can we prevent them from being 1713 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:35,310 detonated and and there was nothing to 1714 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:35,850 it 1715 01:17:42,100 --> 01:17:38,370 but the whole point was to just create 1716 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:42,110 fear by creating a highly sophisticated 1717 01:17:48,110 --> 01:17:46,530 bogus story and that was you know that's 1718 01:17:50,450 --> 01:17:48,120 sort of paralleled what was going on 1719 01:17:53,420 --> 01:17:50,460 with the UFO angle was to come up with 1720 01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:53,430 really bizarre and sort of sinister 1721 01:17:59,570 --> 01:17:57,600 stories and and plant them and see them 1722 01:18:01,820 --> 01:17:59,580 in American intelligence and have 1723 01:18:04,850 --> 01:18:01,830 American intelligence running around 1724 01:18:06,590 --> 01:18:04,860 like headless chickens China you know 1725 01:18:08,750 --> 01:18:06,600 find out what was going on when actually 1726 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:08,760 nothing was going on it was just the 1727 01:18:14,420 --> 01:18:11,250 work of you know these people who were 1728 01:18:16,660 --> 01:18:14,430 very very good at creating stories that 1729 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:16,670 actually have no validity to them 1730 01:18:20,270 --> 01:18:19,770 interesting I don't know if you've ever 1731 01:18:22,610 --> 01:18:20,280 heard 1732 01:18:27,130 --> 01:18:22,620 I don't know exactly how to pronounce at 1733 01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:27,140 the reverb Rona's UFO incident in 1989 1734 01:18:33,490 --> 01:18:31,440 when the children in the park yeah yeah 1735 01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:33,500 that's a fascinating one I don't know 1736 01:18:41,090 --> 01:18:36,330 that can't possibly be one of those 1737 01:18:45,170 --> 01:18:41,100 stories no I actually think that he's a 1738 01:18:48,170 --> 01:18:45,180 genuine good solid case you know it's 1739 01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:48,180 basically in simple terms like a UFO 1740 01:18:52,970 --> 01:18:50,250 landing and entities coming out and 1741 01:18:55,310 --> 01:18:52,980 multiple witnesses kind of cases we 1742 01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:55,320 don't really get too much of today but 1743 01:19:00,110 --> 01:18:56,610 we did in the sort of the fifties and 1744 01:19:03,950 --> 01:19:00,120 sixties and seventies but that case that 1745 01:19:06,530 --> 01:19:03,960 I believe he's a genuine Russian UFO 1746 01:19:09,140 --> 01:19:06,540 case but in saying that he wouldn't 1747 01:19:11,090 --> 01:19:09,150 surprise me if you know there were 1748 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:11,100 people in the intelligence services in 1749 01:19:15,470 --> 01:19:13,170 Russia who thought well you know maybe 1750 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:15,480 okay we don't know what happened it 1751 01:19:20,570 --> 01:19:16,890 looks like it was one of those genuine 1752 01:19:23,540 --> 01:19:20,580 cases but can we actually manipulate 1753 01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:23,550 that real case as a means to you know 1754 01:19:27,050 --> 01:19:25,800 just screw up the rush the Americans you 1755 01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:27,060 know for a couple of weeks or whatever 1756 01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:30,450 so I think I think both sides recognized 1757 01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:33,090 why I know for sure both sides were 1758 01:19:39,500 --> 01:19:35,490 driven by the fact that they both knew 1759 01:19:41,450 --> 01:19:39,510 there were and are real UFOs but that 1760 01:19:46,190 --> 01:19:41,460 doesn't stop them and has never stopped 1761 01:19:50,300 --> 01:19:46,200 them from finding ways to kind of scare 1762 01:19:52,970 --> 01:19:50,310 and and create paranoia in the people 1763 01:19:56,300 --> 01:19:52,980 whose job it is to keep us safe you know 1764 01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:56,310 yeah that is the one I think it was a 1765 01:20:03,530 --> 01:19:58,800 real tall robot that looked like a robot 1766 01:20:06,860 --> 01:20:03,540 type figure came out and like humanoid 1767 01:20:08,450 --> 01:20:06,870 type bigger yeah and if you read the 1768 01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:08,460 whole story about it it's a really 1769 01:20:14,090 --> 01:20:12,210 interesting story and you know as I said 1770 01:20:16,580 --> 01:20:14,100 it's sort of a it's up there with a lot 1771 01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:16,590 of these classic cases from the sixties 1772 01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:18,570 where people are you know driving home 1773 01:20:24,050 --> 01:20:21,600 late at night and they see a UFO landing 1774 01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:24,060 or you know in during the day kind of a 1775 01:20:29,170 --> 01:20:26,730 good example would like a similar one in 1776 01:20:32,660 --> 01:20:29,180 the US would be the the Lonnie Zamora 1777 01:20:33,890 --> 01:20:32,670 UFO oh yeah landing him 1964 I mean 1778 01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:33,900 although that was only 1779 01:20:36,410 --> 01:20:35,040 one witness although they'll actually 1780 01:20:40,189 --> 01:20:36,420 work several others from different 1781 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:40,199 locations although that has one primary 1782 01:20:46,130 --> 01:20:43,050 witness I mean it actually is not 1783 01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:46,140 dissimilar you know to the 1981 that's 1784 01:20:53,410 --> 01:20:49,440 given 1999 one in Russia so in that 1785 01:20:56,540 --> 01:20:53,420 sense you know that the case alone 1786 01:20:59,090 --> 01:20:56,550 regardless of any manipulation and 1787 01:21:01,760 --> 01:20:59,100 changes and disinformation adding to it 1788 01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:01,770 later on I think the fact is that that 1789 01:21:07,610 --> 01:21:04,560 is a legitimate example of something 1790 01:21:09,470 --> 01:21:07,620 from somewhere else coming here and us 1791 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:09,480 really not having any great 1792 01:21:14,060 --> 01:21:12,090 understanding of what it was or even 1793 01:21:17,180 --> 01:21:14,070 what it still is now I can write a 1794 01:21:20,419 --> 01:21:17,190 speaking of that case race Stanford 1795 01:21:22,459 --> 01:21:20,429 wrote the best book on that it's called 1796 01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:22,469 Socorro saucer 1797 01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:25,170 well Socorro and then saucer in a 1798 01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:28,110 Pentagon pantry a very very good book 1799 01:21:32,959 --> 01:21:31,199 even Lonnie Zamora told his his daughter 1800 01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:32,969 like if you want to know about that 1801 01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:35,219 incident that is the book to read and 1802 01:21:39,260 --> 01:21:37,290 actually ray is listening I'll encourage 1803 01:21:46,030 --> 01:21:39,270 him to he listens to the show quite 1804 01:21:51,050 --> 01:21:49,790 but yeah I mean if you look at he what's 1805 01:21:52,970 --> 01:21:51,060 interesting we look at books like 1806 01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:52,980 Roswell they've been dozens and dozens 1807 01:21:59,450 --> 01:21:56,850 of books written on Roswell or area 51 1808 01:22:01,850 --> 01:21:59,460 and alien abductions the number of books 1809 01:22:05,209 --> 01:22:01,860 that have been written on on the whole 1810 01:22:07,610 --> 01:22:05,219 Sakura stories extremely small and even 1811 01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:07,620 though Ray's book you know he's quite 1812 01:22:12,830 --> 01:22:10,770 old now I mean I would still say that 1813 01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:12,840 that is the definitive book you know if 1814 01:22:18,050 --> 01:22:14,489 you want to find something about the 1815 01:22:19,910 --> 01:22:18,060 Socorro case you know don't bother going 1816 01:22:23,090 --> 01:22:19,920 around the net or looking for this or 1817 01:22:25,310 --> 01:22:23,100 looking for that just go go to raise him 1818 01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:25,320 to book you know to go to his book and 1819 01:22:31,370 --> 01:22:28,560 because you know he he wrote the 1820 01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,380 definitive book which still remains the 1821 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:32,880 definitive book on that particular 1822 01:22:40,510 --> 01:22:35,370 affair that's right that's right yeah 1823 01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:46,180 actually ray just just emailed me 1824 01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:49,580 so yeah hopefully he'll he'll call in 1825 01:22:58,819 --> 01:22:52,320 hopefully he's listening and he'll he'll 1826 01:23:01,399 --> 01:22:58,829 call in and he wants to talk about the 1827 01:23:03,729 --> 01:23:01,409 contactee movement because he was 1828 01:23:06,020 --> 01:23:03,739 interested in that and he was a young 1829 01:23:09,229 --> 01:23:06,030 I'll let him tell the story if he calls 1830 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:09,239 in but to write he was really like with 1831 01:23:12,739 --> 01:23:11,130 this twin brother it was yeah that's 1832 01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:12,749 right as a kid he was involved in the 1833 01:23:18,649 --> 01:23:15,449 whole context a issue and yeah you know 1834 01:23:22,399 --> 01:23:18,659 sort of fascinating ear of the you know 1835 01:23:24,739 --> 01:23:22,409 I you know I wasn't around then but you 1836 01:23:26,660 --> 01:23:24,749 know that the holy or the contactees the 1837 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:26,670 space brothers you know it's a 1838 01:23:32,029 --> 01:23:30,570 fascinating area and you know they want 1839 01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:32,039 that those contactees well they're 1840 01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:34,260 almost like the rock stars of their days 1841 01:23:40,279 --> 01:23:36,690 you know part from the the long hair and 1842 01:23:43,129 --> 01:23:40,289 the spandex you know yeah yeah I know 1843 01:23:45,950 --> 01:23:43,139 it's fascinating it's a it's it would be 1844 01:23:48,259 --> 01:23:45,960 a fascinating thing to to study the 1845 01:23:49,970 --> 01:23:48,269 whole contactee movement I mean that 1846 01:23:52,609 --> 01:23:49,980 would be a book worth writing you know 1847 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:52,619 on that whole situation well funnily 1848 01:23:56,060 --> 01:23:54,090 enough a couple of friends of mine 1849 01:23:58,759 --> 01:23:56,070 actually wrote a book about it just 1850 01:24:01,790 --> 01:23:58,769 recently it's called eyes forehead 1851 01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:01,800 excuse me a is for a damn skiing like a 1852 01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:03,840 nice is a book of all the contactees 1853 01:24:09,259 --> 01:24:06,570 yeah it's written by Greg Bishop and 1854 01:24:10,729 --> 01:24:09,269 Adam girl rightly came out about came 1855 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:10,739 out about three months ago that's like a 1856 01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:14,010 really good like a resource type book on 1857 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:16,530 all the various contactees quite 1858 01:24:22,549 --> 01:24:20,010 literally from A to Z how about that I I 1859 01:24:25,459 --> 01:24:22,559 want to tell you I had I had someone 1860 01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:25,469 write me that's a family member of one 1861 01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:30,239 of the major contactees and I I'm 1862 01:24:34,939 --> 01:24:31,679 looking for it right now 1863 01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:34,949 the email but he basically wrote me 1864 01:24:41,989 --> 01:24:38,940 about them someone starting a movie 1865 01:24:44,629 --> 01:24:41,999 about the whole movement and and you 1866 01:24:47,799 --> 01:24:44,639 know basically based on his I don't 1867 01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:47,809 think was the damn skis is one of it was 1868 01:24:54,770 --> 01:24:52,800 who was the one at the giant rock I 1869 01:24:58,759 --> 01:24:54,780 guess it was John vet George Van 1870 01:24:59,850 --> 01:24:58,769 Tassel's relative but anyway we we got a 1871 01:25:04,200 --> 01:24:59,860 little bit of a heated 1872 01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:04,210 bate you know just because I said you 1873 01:25:10,770 --> 01:25:07,510 you know it was kind of calling out the 1874 01:25:12,899 --> 01:25:10,780 theater of the whole situation and he 1875 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:12,909 did not want to hear any part of that so 1876 01:25:17,580 --> 01:25:15,130 there's some people really hanging on to 1877 01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:17,590 that whole movement even now you know 1878 01:25:22,470 --> 01:25:20,320 thinking that people were living on 1879 01:25:25,770 --> 01:25:22,480 Venus and all that it's interesting well 1880 01:25:27,780 --> 01:25:25,780 you know my view on all this is that you 1881 01:25:29,910 --> 01:25:27,790 know I actually think debates and good 1882 01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:29,920 debates and Haiti debates he's actually 1883 01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:32,409 a good thing because at the end of the 1884 01:25:37,169 --> 01:25:35,020 day we know there is a UFO phenomenon 1885 01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:37,179 but we actually really don't have the 1886 01:25:41,729 --> 01:25:39,250 answers as to what's going on so I think 1887 01:25:44,189 --> 01:25:41,739 it's important that even if we have 1888 01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:44,199 different angles and different views on 1889 01:25:48,709 --> 01:25:47,050 this case or that case or on the nature 1890 01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:48,719 of the phenomenon or whether the 1891 01:25:53,310 --> 01:25:51,130 extraterrestrial or interdimensional or 1892 01:25:56,129 --> 01:25:53,320 are they time travelers I don't think it 1893 01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,139 matters if it gets it heated as long as 1894 01:26:02,280 --> 01:25:59,440 we try and make some advances by trying 1895 01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:02,290 to figure out what's going on you know I 1896 01:26:06,419 --> 01:26:04,239 think that's actually a good thing it 1897 01:26:09,450 --> 01:26:06,429 doesn't matter if he gets hated and you 1898 01:26:12,899 --> 01:26:09,460 know almost yeah you know where people 1899 01:26:14,669 --> 01:26:12,909 are being pulled apart you know you know 1900 01:26:16,740 --> 01:26:14,679 pulling away you know before you you 1901 01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:16,750 know break somebody's jaw that kind of 1902 01:26:21,570 --> 01:26:19,570 thing but but yeah I think there's 1903 01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:21,580 nothing wrong at all with a good strong 1904 01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:24,880 solid controversial debate that I think 1905 01:26:30,629 --> 01:26:27,010 actually we need more I think very often 1906 01:26:33,390 --> 01:26:30,639 in ufology you know there's this angle 1907 01:26:35,790 --> 01:26:33,400 to sort of toe the line and not you know 1908 01:26:38,970 --> 01:26:35,800 let's not sort of argue with each other 1909 01:26:40,830 --> 01:26:38,980 and you know just and for me that's 1910 01:26:42,750 --> 01:26:40,840 wrong I mean we don't really know what 1911 01:26:45,060 --> 01:26:42,760 the answers are we need to look for them 1912 01:26:47,850 --> 01:26:45,070 and if somebody doesn't like it well 1913 01:26:49,770 --> 01:26:47,860 what did I T and let's get a good 1914 01:26:51,899 --> 01:26:49,780 argument going you know because that's 1915 01:26:54,390 --> 01:26:51,909 the best way to get answers rather than 1916 01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:54,400 just you know going along with the 1917 01:26:58,830 --> 01:26:56,530 whatever for the sake of it you know 1918 01:27:00,689 --> 01:26:58,840 well since we're since we're on this 1919 01:27:03,050 --> 01:27:00,699 topic you know there's a there's quite a 1920 01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:03,060 debate going on out there right now on 1921 01:27:09,899 --> 01:27:06,369 whether you know there's one side saying 1922 01:27:12,450 --> 01:27:09,909 that you know Lou L Elizondo is not you 1923 01:27:13,090 --> 01:27:12,460 know is not legit and you know that 1924 01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:13,100 there's 1925 01:27:19,860 --> 01:27:15,970 quite a debate going on out there and 1926 01:27:22,510 --> 01:27:19,870 along with the T TSA and all that 1927 01:27:24,430 --> 01:27:22,520 there's well it's kind of a battle and 1928 01:27:27,190 --> 01:27:24,440 infighting I guess you would call it a 1929 01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:27,200 little bit well it is but I mean that 1930 01:27:32,380 --> 01:27:29,330 there's the several really interesting 1931 01:27:34,300 --> 01:27:32,390 aspects to this one is you know what's 1932 01:27:35,860 --> 01:27:34,310 going on quite literally right now you 1933 01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:35,870 know when I say literally right now I 1934 01:27:41,730 --> 01:27:37,760 mean like days and weeks around us right 1935 01:27:44,620 --> 01:27:41,740 now you know a lot of stories coming out 1936 01:27:46,570 --> 01:27:44,630 you know we're more once more giving 1937 01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:46,580 more modes coming out in from you know 1938 01:27:52,090 --> 01:27:49,970 the government side of things from the 1939 01:27:54,700 --> 01:27:52,100 you know the Tom DeLonge side as well 1940 01:27:57,310 --> 01:27:54,710 but also you know I think one of the 1941 01:27:59,290 --> 01:27:57,320 things that I think often gets looked 1942 01:28:01,930 --> 01:27:59,300 over when it comes to you know in just 1943 01:28:03,220 --> 01:28:01,940 two years ago when the revelation was 1944 01:28:05,410 --> 01:28:03,230 the you know the government's got this 1945 01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:05,420 secret UFO program I think one of the 1946 01:28:11,620 --> 01:28:07,610 most important things that often gets 1947 01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:11,630 looked over is the fact that you know 1948 01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:14,570 the debunkers and the skeptics basically 1949 01:28:18,610 --> 01:28:16,730 said you know well you know the 1950 01:28:20,590 --> 01:28:18,620 government doesn't have any information 1951 01:28:23,530 --> 01:28:20,600 on UFOs because the government can't 1952 01:28:27,310 --> 01:28:23,540 keep secrets well the fact is when in 20 1953 01:28:29,740 --> 01:28:27,320 at the end of this 2017 December 2017 1954 01:28:31,630 --> 01:28:29,750 when that story broke about the US 1955 01:28:34,810 --> 01:28:31,640 government's UFO program what that 1956 01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:34,820 demonstrated was that the US government 1957 01:28:42,670 --> 01:28:39,650 actually did have an ongoing UFO program 1958 01:28:44,980 --> 01:28:42,680 after all and guess what nobody at all 1959 01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:44,990 apart from those involved knew anything 1960 01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:48,890 about it so that actually does prove the 1961 01:28:54,190 --> 01:28:52,130 the US government can hide UFO secrets 1962 01:28:57,610 --> 01:28:54,200 from us and not only can they but they 1963 01:28:59,710 --> 01:28:57,620 did you know it had that program not 1964 01:29:02,500 --> 01:28:59,720 being sort of outed in the new york 1965 01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:02,510 times we would not have known a single 1966 01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:04,370 thing about it so i think i think that's 1967 01:29:08,530 --> 01:29:06,290 an important issue in this in what's 1968 01:29:10,210 --> 01:29:08,540 going on right now when people are 1969 01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:10,220 looking for information and talking 1970 01:29:13,690 --> 01:29:12,170 about this and talking about that for me 1971 01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:13,700 the most important thing is it 1972 01:29:19,210 --> 01:29:16,370 demonstrates that you know this UFO 1973 01:29:22,750 --> 01:29:19,220 program was hidden and was never found 1974 01:29:25,060 --> 01:29:22,760 or never discussed outside you know of 1975 01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:25,070 the parameters of the program and that 1976 01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:26,690 sort of brings another 1977 01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:30,170 shuh to mind how many other UFO programs 1978 01:29:33,250 --> 01:29:31,730 are there you know different doing 1979 01:29:35,740 --> 01:29:33,260 different research in different areas 1980 01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:35,750 how many other UFO programs are there 1981 01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:37,730 just like that one that was exposed in 1982 01:29:42,100 --> 01:29:40,610 2017 how many others are there still 1983 01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:42,110 going on now that we don't know about 1984 01:29:46,020 --> 01:29:43,850 you know there could be another five or 1985 01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:46,030 ten you know there could be one 1986 01:29:50,260 --> 01:29:48,050 investigating alien abductions that 1987 01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:50,270 could be a program investigated in crop 1988 01:29:55,780 --> 01:29:52,130 circles you know domain it could there 1989 01:29:58,810 --> 01:29:55,790 could be so many different programs 1990 01:30:02,050 --> 01:29:58,820 going on that nobody really knows about 1991 01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:02,060 apart from those that run the programs 1992 01:30:07,180 --> 01:30:04,130 and that was a perfect example of that 1993 01:30:09,939 --> 01:30:07,190 is what happened at the end of 2017 when 1994 01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:09,949 we learned that there was this project 1995 01:30:13,810 --> 01:30:13,370 and nobody knew about it at all that's 1996 01:30:15,670 --> 01:30:13,820 right 1997 01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:15,680 and I theory is speculation just what 1998 01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:19,090 you're saying about that I've heard I 1999 01:30:25,390 --> 01:30:21,890 think that question may have even been 2000 01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:25,400 asked of Lou Elizondo himself about how 2001 01:30:30,820 --> 01:30:28,489 many programs is it possible it seems to 2002 01:30:32,650 --> 01:30:30,830 me I heard something about that we do 2003 01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:32,660 have a question someone wants to know 2004 01:30:37,660 --> 01:30:34,010 what you think about the narrow window 2005 01:30:41,380 --> 01:30:37,670 into disclosure the Pentagon Vinny the 2006 01:30:44,620 --> 01:30:41,390 Pentagon videos reveal why such 2007 01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:44,630 truncated and limited data doesn't it 2008 01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:47,530 feel like a manipulation times 10 2009 01:30:54,220 --> 01:30:51,250 interesting question yeah it is I mean 2010 01:30:56,860 --> 01:30:54,230 what one of the things that sort of made 2011 01:30:58,870 --> 01:30:56,870 me think about all this is yeah you know 2012 01:31:01,689 --> 01:30:58,880 I mean I've heard various theories as to 2013 01:31:03,970 --> 01:31:01,699 what you know the the footage you know 2014 01:31:05,590 --> 01:31:03,980 the pictures actually show you know and 2015 01:31:08,020 --> 01:31:05,600 I've heard from various people well it's 2016 01:31:11,170 --> 01:31:08,030 alien craft or it's some sort of highly 2017 01:31:13,900 --> 01:31:11,180 advanced technology of the military but 2018 01:31:17,380 --> 01:31:13,910 one other thing this is sort of more of 2019 01:31:19,810 --> 01:31:17,390 a not so much of something I can pro but 2020 01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:19,820 it's almost like a hunch I kind of get 2021 01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:22,610 the fail in that at least some of this 2022 01:31:27,310 --> 01:31:24,800 footage the film and the discussion of 2023 01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:27,320 it and all of this is actually being 2024 01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:31,010 sort of shown to us for a reason you 2025 01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:34,489 know and and I think that's an important 2026 01:31:40,540 --> 01:31:38,330 aspect to note I think I think you know 2027 01:31:42,730 --> 01:31:40,550 I I don't think this is just a 2028 01:31:47,770 --> 01:31:42,740 trying to understand what's in the film 2029 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:47,780 I think it's a case of subtly sort of 2030 01:31:52,930 --> 01:31:51,290 letting the the public know but well you 2031 01:31:55,750 --> 01:31:52,940 know that there is something out there 2032 01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:55,760 and maybe you know the next week of the 2033 01:32:00,580 --> 01:31:57,890 next week will be shown something else 2034 01:32:05,230 --> 01:32:00,590 now does that mean we're sort of on the 2035 01:32:08,260 --> 01:32:05,240 verge of full-scale you know an exposure 2036 01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:08,270 of everything I don't know you know it's 2037 01:32:12,940 --> 01:32:10,370 that's sort of really difficult to say 2038 01:32:15,130 --> 01:32:12,950 but I think and I think the footage the 2039 01:32:20,230 --> 01:32:15,140 film you know the objects and so on I 2040 01:32:22,930 --> 01:32:20,240 think the agenda is to get the general 2041 01:32:25,150 --> 01:32:22,940 public aware now and then of course the 2042 01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:25,160 big question is well why does somebody 2043 01:32:29,500 --> 01:32:27,290 want us aware you know and of course 2044 01:32:32,260 --> 01:32:29,510 that he's gonna that's the big question 2045 01:32:36,310 --> 01:32:32,270 I think I think we have ray calling and 2046 01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:36,320 now actually hey ray is that you that's 2047 01:32:40,810 --> 01:32:38,690 me hey ray welcome to the show you're on 2048 01:32:46,300 --> 01:32:40,820 with Nick Redfern this is race Stanford 2049 01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:46,310 okay yeah hey thank both Morgan and you 2050 01:32:50,590 --> 01:32:48,410 for your nice comments on my Sakura book 2051 01:32:52,480 --> 01:32:50,600 but I wanted to I was so pleased that 2052 01:32:54,550 --> 01:32:52,490 you're bringing into the picture 2053 01:32:57,550 --> 01:32:54,560 the FBI involvement back in the 2054 01:32:59,980 --> 01:32:57,560 contactee days you know I was in my 2055 01:33:01,600 --> 01:32:59,990 teens back at that time and while in my 2056 01:33:03,630 --> 01:33:01,610 teens I wrote with my twin brother a 2057 01:33:05,620 --> 01:33:03,640 book in which we had some wonderful 2058 01:33:08,050 --> 01:33:05,630 encounters with these objects but we 2059 01:33:11,170 --> 01:33:08,060 went overboard never leaf in a damn ski 2060 01:33:12,910 --> 01:33:11,180 and interpreted it in a very contactee 2061 01:33:16,180 --> 01:33:12,920 context so we kind of became known as 2062 01:33:19,270 --> 01:33:16,190 contactees - well it turns out the FBI 2063 01:33:21,550 --> 01:33:19,280 was very interested in us and I want to 2064 01:33:23,050 --> 01:33:21,560 talk very fast cuz we got a lot of 2065 01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:23,060 interesting thing to tell it happened to 2066 01:33:29,140 --> 01:33:25,370 us Knight context but we decided to take 2067 01:33:32,350 --> 01:33:29,150 a trip to Peru in 1957 January and their 2068 01:33:34,030 --> 01:33:32,360 travel agent had called us and said you 2069 01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:34,040 should know that that somebody's 2070 01:33:37,510 --> 01:33:35,690 concerned about this and checking into 2071 01:33:39,580 --> 01:33:37,520 it but he didn't want tell us what it 2072 01:33:42,790 --> 01:33:39,590 was okay when we got on the plane and we 2073 01:33:44,380 --> 01:33:42,800 had two different three different 2074 01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:44,390 changes of plane on the way down there 2075 01:33:49,660 --> 01:33:47,450 there the same man in an in a blue suit 2076 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:49,670 with a tie got on the plane and every 2077 01:33:54,220 --> 01:33:51,970 time we changed planes whether it was in 2078 01:33:56,590 --> 01:33:54,230 Miami or whether it was in 2079 01:34:00,070 --> 01:33:56,600 Kubo we didn't change ever but we did 2080 01:34:02,979 --> 01:34:00,080 stop there or whether it was in Central 2081 01:34:04,930 --> 01:34:02,989 America in Panama when we finally got 2082 01:34:07,870 --> 01:34:04,940 down to Peru this fellow in the blue 2083 01:34:10,090 --> 01:34:07,880 suit stopped in to the very same hotel 2084 01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:10,100 which was a expensive tourist hotel 2085 01:34:14,979 --> 01:34:11,810 downtown across from the plaza san 2086 01:34:17,740 --> 01:34:14,989 martín and checked in right with us and 2087 01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:17,750 checked in and room right beside ours 2088 01:34:22,990 --> 01:34:20,090 well we thought that was kind of 2089 01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:23,000 interesting and but we decided to get 2090 01:34:27,250 --> 01:34:25,370 into a less expensive hotel and we moved 2091 01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:27,260 across town to a nice hotel but not the 2092 01:34:31,750 --> 01:34:29,930 tourist type that was called Hotel venti 2093 01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:31,760 or de julio their their Independence Day 2094 01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:34,730 July 28th and well we didn't know is 2095 01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:37,040 across the street from the hotel was the 2096 01:34:40,330 --> 01:34:37,610 person 2097 01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:40,340 well we're naive there we had nothing to 2098 01:34:45,190 --> 01:34:43,610 do with communism in fact it's well 2099 01:34:46,630 --> 01:34:45,200 known that my brother and a friend of 2100 01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:46,640 his in high school had started the use 2101 01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:48,770 of McCarthy club just in the year before 2102 01:34:53,170 --> 01:34:50,570 high school they were very handy 2103 01:34:55,300 --> 01:34:53,180 communists but we begin to suspicion 2104 01:34:58,030 --> 01:34:55,310 this fellow in the black suit but blue 2105 01:34:59,920 --> 01:34:58,040 suit was kind of following us around 2106 01:35:01,960 --> 01:34:59,930 after all how does he switch from the 2107 01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:01,970 one hotel downtown and he switched into 2108 01:35:06,610 --> 01:35:04,370 the venta de julio when we switched and 2109 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:06,620 he was next door to us he never spoke to 2110 01:35:11,500 --> 01:35:09,770 us so now here's the crazy part one 2111 01:35:13,510 --> 01:35:11,510 morning we decided to punch up the 2112 01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:13,520 elevator and go down and we were 2113 01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:15,170 teetotalers course but we wanted some 2114 01:35:20,650 --> 01:35:18,770 our juice for breakfast and we punched 2115 01:35:22,180 --> 01:35:20,660 the button to go down the door opens up 2116 01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:22,190 you'd never guess who's standing in 2117 01:35:27,850 --> 01:35:24,530 front of us not the man in blue it was 2118 01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:27,860 but I will Castro believe it or not and 2119 01:35:33,490 --> 01:35:29,600 John spoke pretty good Spanish and he's 2120 01:35:36,610 --> 01:35:33,500 old couple start and Raul told us that 2121 01:35:38,650 --> 01:35:36,620 he was there because the hodie across 2122 01:35:40,780 --> 01:35:38,660 the street from the hotel was the prison 2123 01:35:42,310 --> 01:35:40,790 and he said I'm going there to solicit 2124 01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:42,320 people who are just getting out of 2125 01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:45,250 prison to come fight in la revolucion so 2126 01:35:50,830 --> 01:35:48,170 this was amazing now here the FBI agent 2127 01:35:52,690 --> 01:35:50,840 is next door to us watching us and he 2128 01:35:53,979 --> 01:35:52,700 probably didn't even know that right in 2129 01:35:56,290 --> 01:35:53,989 the same boat tell me we're talking to 2130 01:35:58,270 --> 01:35:56,300 him in the elevator with Raul Castro it 2131 01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:58,280 was really quite ironic me anyway to 2132 01:36:01,810 --> 01:35:59,840 make a long story short when we finally 2133 01:36:04,510 --> 01:36:01,820 managed to survive and their deaths 2134 01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:04,520 Watson and got back to good old whole 2135 01:36:07,939 --> 01:36:06,050 town of Corpus Christi Texas 2136 01:36:09,919 --> 01:36:07,949 my mother said how shall we 2137 01:36:13,580 --> 01:36:09,929 so concerned about you she said one day 2138 01:36:15,709 --> 01:36:13,590 to FBI just came to the door and they 2139 01:36:18,529 --> 01:36:15,719 said mrs. temple we need to talk to you 2140 01:36:23,629 --> 01:36:18,539 we're concerned that your two twin sons 2141 01:36:25,489 --> 01:36:23,639 are maybe communists we suspected why 2142 01:36:27,259 --> 01:36:25,499 else would they go to Peru no 2143 01:36:30,649 --> 01:36:27,269 consideration of other reasons we might 2144 01:36:32,089 --> 01:36:30,659 have and she said look that's ridiculous 2145 01:36:34,009 --> 01:36:32,099 he said don't you know about their 2146 01:36:36,350 --> 01:36:34,019 involvement that Rex at least attended 2147 01:36:37,850 --> 01:36:36,360 and and in fact participated in founding 2148 01:36:39,949 --> 01:36:37,860 the youth for McCarty clubs he said you 2149 01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:39,959 know you're barking up the wrong tree so 2150 01:36:43,879 --> 01:36:42,690 anyway they left but I want to make this 2151 01:36:46,939 --> 01:36:43,889 sharp because I don't want to take all 2152 01:36:50,719 --> 01:36:46,949 makes time here but several years later 2153 01:36:53,719 --> 01:36:50,729 in 1961 or 62 I think was 61 I was 2154 01:36:55,879 --> 01:36:53,729 lecturing on UFOs I had moved out of the 2155 01:36:57,169 --> 01:36:55,889 contactee way of describing my 2156 01:36:59,239 --> 01:36:57,179 experiences described him more 2157 01:37:03,109 --> 01:36:59,249 objectively because I had wised up to 2158 01:37:04,669 --> 01:37:03,119 Adamski and here we are and I'm watching 2159 01:37:06,259 --> 01:37:04,679 there's a lady in the front row right in 2160 01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:06,269 the middle and I noticed she had this 2161 01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:09,090 enormous wooden purse and somebody spoke 2162 01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:10,289 to her and she turned around I noticed 2163 01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:12,570 that there were at least three knobs or 2164 01:37:15,469 --> 01:37:14,489 devices on the back of the purse we 2165 01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:15,479 think that's a log 2166 01:37:20,270 --> 01:37:18,360 well when the break came this lady with 2167 01:37:22,459 --> 01:37:20,280 the except a large person with knobs on 2168 01:37:26,180 --> 01:37:22,469 the back walked right up to me and she 2169 01:37:28,699 --> 01:37:26,190 said Mr Stanford I would like to know of 2170 01:37:32,719 --> 01:37:28,709 what the extraterrestrials may be said 2171 01:37:35,839 --> 01:37:32,729 the aliens have told you about communism 2172 01:37:37,459 --> 01:37:35,849 what do they think about communism yeah 2173 01:37:40,370 --> 01:37:37,469 I think I left her right in her face I 2174 01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:40,380 said look if I had a contact with a 2175 01:37:45,049 --> 01:37:43,050 conversation of an alien I wouldn't be 2176 01:37:46,729 --> 01:37:45,059 talking them about communism I'd want to 2177 01:37:49,310 --> 01:37:46,739 ask them two things about how that craft 2178 01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:49,320 is propelled or something else I said hi 2179 01:37:54,259 --> 01:37:51,840 I've had no such occasion so I have no 2180 01:37:56,029 --> 01:37:54,269 idea that their view on communism and so 2181 01:37:58,520 --> 01:37:56,039 she turned around I presume cut off the 2182 01:38:00,500 --> 01:37:58,530 device inside her purse and that's the 2183 01:38:02,859 --> 01:38:00,510 story but I thought you might enjoy that 2184 01:38:05,509 --> 01:38:02,869 neck because yet at least I'm a living 2185 01:38:07,850 --> 01:38:05,519 so-called contactee and and that's what 2186 01:38:09,979 --> 01:38:07,860 happened to us that's really interesting 2187 01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:09,989 because I mean that sort of demonstrates 2188 01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:12,570 you know this angle of how you know 2189 01:38:18,649 --> 01:38:16,530 there was legitimate penetrations of the 2190 01:38:21,290 --> 01:38:18,659 Russian but there was also paranoia you 2191 01:38:24,230 --> 01:38:21,300 know that put a lot of the con 2192 01:38:25,940 --> 01:38:24,240 satis were the Communists as well and 2193 01:38:28,010 --> 01:38:25,950 bit interesting you mentioned you know 2194 01:38:30,170 --> 01:38:28,020 big going on the plains and so on 2195 01:38:32,390 --> 01:38:30,180 because one of the people I got when I 2196 01:38:34,430 --> 01:38:32,400 was doing the book one of the people are 2197 01:38:37,340 --> 01:38:34,440 got files on you mate I don't you have a 2198 01:38:39,650 --> 01:38:37,350 matter or you know a name Sonya the 2199 01:38:42,230 --> 01:38:39,660 Bucheon oh sure I knew her very well 2200 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:42,240 well I got okay well I got hold of her 2201 01:38:47,030 --> 01:38:43,890 freed of Information Act through the 2202 01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:47,040 Australian government and she was 2203 01:38:52,130 --> 01:38:49,530 followed extremely closely for example 2204 01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:52,140 the file talks about a trip she made to 2205 01:38:57,320 --> 01:38:55,050 the United States in 1959 and he talks 2206 01:38:58,160 --> 01:38:57,330 about how Australian intelligence when 2207 01:39:01,100 --> 01:38:58,170 you read the files 2208 01:39:04,730 --> 01:39:01,110 they even had not just that the the 2209 01:39:06,650 --> 01:39:04,740 airline she was flying in but also the 2210 01:39:09,620 --> 01:39:06,660 actual flight ticket numbers are listed 2211 01:39:12,650 --> 01:39:09,630 in her surveillance far from Australian 2212 01:39:15,620 --> 01:39:12,660 intelligence and and primarily it was 2213 01:39:18,260 --> 01:39:15,630 because number one she was in touch with 2214 01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:18,270 George Adamski made a number of 2215 01:39:26,060 --> 01:39:21,450 controversial statements about communism 2216 01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:26,070 but also she was also someone who was 2217 01:39:30,410 --> 01:39:29,010 born in Yugoslavia which you know one 2218 01:39:32,510 --> 01:39:30,420 point was a communist country and it 2219 01:39:36,230 --> 01:39:32,520 talks about that in the file as well as 2220 01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:36,240 to you know was she still sort of you 2221 01:39:41,330 --> 01:39:39,050 know having some sort of connection to 2222 01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:41,340 Yugoslavia when apparently she wasn't at 2223 01:39:44,930 --> 01:39:43,410 all but you know this was what was going 2224 01:39:47,420 --> 01:39:44,940 through the heads of like Australian 2225 01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:47,430 intelligence means I'm glad you brought 2226 01:39:53,630 --> 01:39:50,850 up the subject of Sonia to be said may I 2227 01:39:56,420 --> 01:39:53,640 take a moment and tell about my notes 2228 01:39:58,790 --> 01:39:56,430 encounter with Sonia okay we were up ed 2229 01:40:01,610 --> 01:39:58,800 Adamski's and she was living up there at 2230 01:40:04,820 --> 01:40:01,620 the time and she never mentioned 2231 01:40:07,370 --> 01:40:04,830 communism to us but she was an amazing 2232 01:40:09,530 --> 01:40:07,380 story that I mean here we are we were in 2233 01:40:11,900 --> 01:40:09,540 a you know our teens are late teens at 2234 01:40:13,340 --> 01:40:11,910 that point and so we really got a kick 2235 01:40:16,010 --> 01:40:13,350 out of this and we didn't buy into it 2236 01:40:18,410 --> 01:40:16,020 but she actually told us right in front 2237 01:40:22,130 --> 01:40:18,420 of the damn ski she said that one night 2238 01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:22,140 that she named one of the alleged em ski 2239 01:40:26,210 --> 01:40:24,510 contacts I don't know it was supposed to 2240 01:40:28,730 --> 01:40:26,220 be a Venusian or Jupiter you know what 2241 01:40:32,150 --> 01:40:28,740 was she called is supposed name that 2242 01:40:33,510 --> 01:40:32,160 damn scan the book and she said that if 2243 01:40:35,900 --> 01:40:33,520 she said that 2244 01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:35,910 and a girlfriend of hers were at a 2245 01:40:42,150 --> 01:40:40,210 restaurant one night and 32 aliens space 2246 01:40:45,450 --> 01:40:42,160 brothers she said came into the 2247 01:40:47,610 --> 01:40:45,460 restaurant and they invited these 32 2248 01:40:50,250 --> 01:40:47,620 space brothers or was it 22 I think was 2249 01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:50,260 32 or to believe but they invited him 2250 01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:52,810 over to her or her girlfriends apartment 2251 01:40:56,970 --> 01:40:54,850 and the space brothers said that they 2252 01:40:59,460 --> 01:40:56,980 needed to be sexually serviced by them 2253 01:41:01,470 --> 01:40:59,470 to keep their energies up and she said 2254 01:41:08,030 --> 01:41:01,480 we serviced every one of them that night 2255 01:41:14,070 --> 01:41:10,880 well that part of that story is actually 2256 01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:14,080 exactly in the file is that right well 2257 01:41:20,310 --> 01:41:17,650 yep well that's great well I'm going to 2258 01:41:22,170 --> 01:41:20,320 let you go but I want to share that with 2259 01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:22,180 and think I'm really enjoying what 2260 01:41:25,650 --> 01:41:23,650 you're telling about these things to me 2261 01:41:27,890 --> 01:41:25,660 I thank that thanks right thanks a lot 2262 01:41:30,870 --> 01:41:27,900 thanks for the call ray talk to you soon 2263 01:41:36,180 --> 01:41:30,880 yeah always always great hearing from 2264 01:41:40,170 --> 01:41:36,190 him so you know getting back to the the 2265 01:41:43,860 --> 01:41:40,180 documents when you are doing a book like 2266 01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:43,870 this do you actually collect that first 2267 01:41:47,700 --> 01:41:45,970 or as you're going along does one thing 2268 01:41:49,940 --> 01:41:47,710 lead into another how does that work 2269 01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:49,950 yeah it's kind of a little bit sort of 2270 01:41:55,710 --> 01:41:53,410 chaotic you know you sort of you get it 2271 01:41:58,800 --> 01:41:55,720 like the hint of a story and then you 2272 01:42:00,600 --> 01:41:58,810 you just try and track down all the 2273 01:42:02,250 --> 01:42:00,610 different portions of the parts to it 2274 01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:02,260 but sometimes you know they'll come 2275 01:42:07,770 --> 01:42:04,690 through like is it like like a chaotic 2276 01:42:09,420 --> 01:42:07,780 way and then you try and when you you're 2277 01:42:11,700 --> 01:42:09,430 sort of satisfied you've gone about as 2278 01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:11,710 far as you can then you try and put it 2279 01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:14,250 all together sort of you know 2280 01:42:19,530 --> 01:42:17,050 chronologically speaking and you know 2281 01:42:22,830 --> 01:42:19,540 subjects speaking and just try and put 2282 01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:22,840 the whole picture together and you know 2283 01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:26,170 I never try and anticipate how the 2284 01:42:30,780 --> 01:42:27,850 investigations going to go on because 2285 01:42:32,010 --> 01:42:30,790 invariably with a subject like UFOs it's 2286 01:42:34,260 --> 01:42:32,020 always unpredictable 2287 01:42:39,030 --> 01:42:34,270 well I just sort of let the story 2288 01:42:40,710 --> 01:42:39,040 develop as he goes along and and you 2289 01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:40,720 know that was that was sort of what 2290 01:42:44,820 --> 01:42:41,290 happened 2291 01:42:46,780 --> 01:42:44,830 you know just the more I dug into it the 2292 01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:46,790 more sort of 2293 01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:48,770 you know gets of information came 2294 01:42:53,980 --> 01:42:51,530 through which would sort of require me 2295 01:42:56,770 --> 01:42:53,990 to change this chapter or to add to this 2296 01:42:59,260 --> 01:42:56,780 chapter because you know new material 2297 01:43:01,950 --> 01:42:59,270 was coming through and was adding 2298 01:43:04,690 --> 01:43:01,960 something new to what I owned was a 2299 01:43:07,020 --> 01:43:04,700 finished chapter you know yeah kind of 2300 01:43:11,740 --> 01:43:07,030 like piecing a puzzle together in a way 2301 01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:11,750 yeah exactly so I I see that you you 2302 01:43:17,140 --> 01:43:14,510 touch on the mj-12 documents which of 2303 01:43:20,620 --> 01:43:17,150 course for the person that son familiar 2304 01:43:23,470 --> 01:43:20,630 with them there was I think was back in 2305 01:43:25,740 --> 01:43:23,480 the 1980s is that when there was a so 2306 01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:25,750 these files came to actually a film 2307 01:43:31,180 --> 01:43:28,250 filmmaker or producer or something like 2308 01:43:33,160 --> 01:43:31,190 that yeah but anyway there's been a lot 2309 01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:33,170 of controversy about those documents 2310 01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:36,290 Stan Friedman believed there was a 2311 01:43:40,750 --> 01:43:38,690 couple of documents that were real I 2312 01:43:43,930 --> 01:43:40,760 always get suspicious when there's 2313 01:43:45,310 --> 01:43:43,940 supposedly any fakes at all and a 2314 01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:45,320 grouping and it always makes me 2315 01:43:51,340 --> 01:43:47,360 suspicious yeah but anyway so is there 2316 01:43:53,590 --> 01:43:51,350 some type of connection between the 2317 01:43:56,050 --> 01:43:53,600 mj-12 documents and and some of the 2318 01:43:57,850 --> 01:43:56,060 research you were doing on this yeah 2319 01:43:59,980 --> 01:43:57,860 this is sort of really controversial 2320 01:44:04,030 --> 01:43:59,990 area one of the things I found that the 2321 01:44:06,790 --> 01:44:04,040 the US Defense Intelligence Agency when 2322 01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:06,800 the mj-12 documents surfaced in the 2323 01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:10,970 summer of 1987 the DIA were very 2324 01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:14,090 concerned that the the documents were 2325 01:44:18,490 --> 01:44:15,530 not the real thing but have been 2326 01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:18,500 fabricated by Russian intelligence now 2327 01:44:25,750 --> 01:44:21,440 the people who don't know what the mj-12 2328 01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:25,760 documents are they surfaced publicly in 2329 01:44:32,170 --> 01:44:28,930 the summer of 1987 early summer of 1987 2330 01:44:34,690 --> 01:44:32,180 from the team of Stan Friedman who as we 2331 01:44:38,260 --> 01:44:34,700 know sadly passed away a couple of a few 2332 01:44:40,510 --> 01:44:38,270 weeks ago Stan and Bill Moore who was 2333 01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:40,520 the co-author with Charles Berlitz of 2334 01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:43,760 the book the Roswell incidents and a guy 2335 01:44:50,740 --> 01:44:46,730 named Jamie Chandra who worked in a 2336 01:44:54,250 --> 01:44:50,750 world of entertainment now the the 2337 01:44:56,500 --> 01:44:54,260 documents looks like genuine US 2338 01:45:00,430 --> 01:44:56,510 government top-secret documents talking 2339 01:45:02,979 --> 01:45:00,440 about a group called majestic 12 and 2340 01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:02,989 have this particular super-secret group 2341 01:45:09,820 --> 01:45:07,730 oversaw the the recovery and collection 2342 01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:09,830 of the the wreckage and bodies found at 2343 01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:12,530 the Roswell New Mexico UFO crash in the 2344 01:45:19,570 --> 01:45:17,090 summer of 1947 and during that period 2345 01:45:24,370 --> 01:45:19,580 sort of when it was really at its height 2346 01:45:27,310 --> 01:45:24,380 kind of 87 to about 89 something like 2347 01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:27,320 that there was a lot of interest in the 2348 01:45:31,709 --> 01:45:29,330 mj-12 documents and the idea that 2349 01:45:36,820 --> 01:45:31,719 there's this group called majestic 12 2350 01:45:39,790 --> 01:45:36,830 now in the same in the same timeframe 2351 01:45:44,140 --> 01:45:39,800 a man named Philip Glass who was a now 2352 01:45:47,410 --> 01:45:44,150 deceased UFO debunker he contacted the 2353 01:45:49,300 --> 01:45:47,420 FBI and said hey and also that video a 2354 01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:49,310 and said basically said how you know 2355 01:45:53,979 --> 01:45:51,530 these documents are circulating which 2356 01:45:55,689 --> 01:45:53,989 are purported to be leaked documents and 2357 01:45:57,370 --> 01:45:55,699 either there are hoaxes and if they're 2358 01:45:59,290 --> 01:45:57,380 not a hoax and they're leaked then 2359 01:46:02,380 --> 01:45:59,300 there's been a leak of classified 2360 01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:02,390 material and as the FBI and the DIA you 2361 01:46:05,260 --> 01:46:04,010 need to look into it so that's what they 2362 01:46:10,180 --> 01:46:05,270 did 2363 01:46:12,729 --> 01:46:10,190 now the FBI opined that their cancer 2364 01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:12,739 intelligence departments opened a fire 2365 01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:15,290 or an investigation I should say into 2366 01:46:19,870 --> 01:46:17,570 the mj-12 documents and liaise with the 2367 01:46:22,570 --> 01:46:19,880 Air Force intelligence and also with the 2368 01:46:25,689 --> 01:46:22,580 DIA and they looked at various theories 2369 01:46:28,180 --> 01:46:25,699 one being that the documents were the 2370 01:46:30,580 --> 01:46:28,190 real deal that there really was an mj-12 2371 01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:30,590 that aliens did crash at Roswell and so 2372 01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:33,050 on that was the one theory there was a 2373 01:46:39,340 --> 01:46:35,570 second theory that this was sort of the 2374 01:46:41,740 --> 01:46:39,350 work of some you know weirdo guy sort of 2375 01:46:44,140 --> 01:46:41,750 50 year old living in his mom and dad's 2376 01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:44,150 basement you know that kind of thing 2377 01:46:49,990 --> 01:46:46,489 that was the second theory but the most 2378 01:46:52,150 --> 01:46:50,000 intriguing idea or theory was that the 2379 01:46:55,570 --> 01:46:52,160 documents the mj-12 documents have been 2380 01:47:00,340 --> 01:46:55,580 created by the KGB and that the Russians 2381 01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:00,350 wanted to essentially sort of dangle 2382 01:47:06,970 --> 01:47:03,920 them in the face of people who worked in 2383 01:47:09,850 --> 01:47:06,980 the US Department of Defense and the 2384 01:47:12,850 --> 01:47:09,860 plan that the Russian supposedly had was 2385 01:47:14,210 --> 01:47:12,860 to seek out people in who worked in the 2386 01:47:17,690 --> 01:47:14,220 Department of Defense and 2387 01:47:20,660 --> 01:47:17,700 also had an interest in UFOs and the the 2388 01:47:23,690 --> 01:47:20,670 worried that the di a-- and the FB i-- 2389 01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:23,700 had was that somebody in russian 2390 01:47:27,830 --> 01:47:25,290 intelligence would put more and more 2391 01:47:29,510 --> 01:47:27,840 these documents together and approach 2392 01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:29,520 people in the Department of Defense and 2393 01:47:33,140 --> 01:47:31,410 say hey you know if you give us some 2394 01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:33,150 legitimate US secrets 2395 01:47:39,740 --> 01:47:36,930 we'll give you more and more these mj-12 2396 01:47:42,020 --> 01:47:39,750 documents and so the the scenario was 2397 01:47:44,230 --> 01:47:42,030 that these people work in u.s. 2398 01:47:46,730 --> 01:47:44,240 intelligence had an interest in UFOs 2399 01:47:49,940 --> 01:47:46,740 would hand over genuine legitimate 2400 01:47:52,700 --> 01:47:49,950 secrets on you know military secrets and 2401 01:47:55,190 --> 01:47:52,710 so on and in return all they would get 2402 01:47:57,830 --> 01:47:55,200 with these fabricated mj-12 documents 2403 01:48:00,500 --> 01:47:57,840 from the russians that was that was the 2404 01:48:03,050 --> 01:48:00,510 legitimate concern that the Defense 2405 01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:03,060 Intelligence Agency and and the FBI had 2406 01:48:07,550 --> 01:48:04,370 that there would be this sort of 2407 01:48:09,500 --> 01:48:07,560 dangling carrot scenario where the 2408 01:48:12,650 --> 01:48:09,510 Russians would get real stuff from us 2409 01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:12,660 and these UFOs s people who happen to 2410 01:48:18,710 --> 01:48:14,850 work in the Pentagon would get nothing 2411 01:48:21,020 --> 01:48:18,720 other than fake material and you know 2412 01:48:24,020 --> 01:48:21,030 depending on who you speak to to this 2413 01:48:26,090 --> 01:48:24,030 day you know I mean some people still 2414 01:48:28,340 --> 01:48:26,100 buy into the documents as real other 2415 01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:28,350 people think it was a hoax other people 2416 01:48:34,250 --> 01:48:31,730 you know take of alternative views but 2417 01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:34,260 what is interesting is that one of the 2418 01:48:39,410 --> 01:48:37,170 people who was heavily involved in the 2419 01:48:42,440 --> 01:48:39,420 investigation of the documents was Bruce 2420 01:48:44,750 --> 01:48:42,450 Maccabee who is a longtime researcher of 2421 01:48:47,750 --> 01:48:44,760 the UFO phenomenon now 2422 01:48:50,510 --> 01:48:47,760 the documents really the discussion of 2423 01:48:54,440 --> 01:48:50,520 them was at its height from sort of 87 2424 01:48:56,750 --> 01:48:54,450 to about 89 90 but Bruce has gone on 2425 01:49:01,100 --> 01:48:56,760 record as stating that in the early 2426 01:49:04,820 --> 01:49:01,110 1990s he was actually approached by like 2427 01:49:06,980 --> 01:49:04,830 a Russian attaché working in the United 2428 01:49:10,820 --> 01:49:06,990 States who was deeply interested in 2429 01:49:14,060 --> 01:49:10,830 China get hold of UFO material US 2430 01:49:15,710 --> 01:49:14,070 government material no no this kind of 2431 01:49:18,170 --> 01:49:15,720 makes it sound as I point out in the 2432 01:49:20,750 --> 01:49:18,180 book is there's sort of enough material 2433 01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:20,760 to suggest that a lot of the people like 2434 01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:22,370 Bill Moore Stan 2435 01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:24,930 Jamie Shonda Ray and Bruce Maccabee 2436 01:49:30,090 --> 01:49:27,610 we're all being watched 2437 01:49:31,050 --> 01:49:30,100 what their responses were to these mj-12 2438 01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:31,060 document 2439 01:49:35,490 --> 01:49:33,010 well well we're actually out of time but 2440 01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:35,500 I wanted to say this real quickly this 2441 01:49:40,590 --> 01:49:37,449 would probably explain I was in an 2442 01:49:43,950 --> 01:49:40,600 auction house two or three years ago and 2443 01:49:46,859 --> 01:49:43,960 they they were doing in a state they 2444 01:49:49,290 --> 01:49:46,869 were selling in a state of FBI retired 2445 01:49:51,410 --> 01:49:49,300 FBI agent who passed away and in his 2446 01:49:55,169 --> 01:49:51,420 footlocker were the mj-12 documents 2447 01:49:56,820 --> 01:49:55,179 which were up was really fascinating but 2448 01:49:58,680 --> 01:49:56,830 there there's that's probably the tie 2449 01:50:00,870 --> 01:49:58,690 right there I was trying to figure that 2450 01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:00,880 one out I actually let's stand for even 2451 01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:02,080 know about that he thought it was 2452 01:50:06,270 --> 01:50:03,850 interesting but anyway thanks so much 2453 01:50:08,729 --> 01:50:06,280 and anyone can get this book it's on 2454 01:50:10,530 --> 01:50:08,739 Amazon you can get to it on your website 2455 01:50:16,020 --> 01:50:10,540 to go ahead and throw that out and then 2456 01:50:17,850 --> 01:50:16,030 I we have to say goodbye yeah what's 2457 01:50:21,510 --> 01:50:17,860 your website address you have a blog 2458 01:50:23,340 --> 01:50:21,520 site right yeah I have a blog wiki just 2459 01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:23,350 type in Nick Redfern world of whatever 2460 01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:25,570 you'll see my blog and you can reach me 2461 01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:26,170 at Twitter 2462 01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:28,570 Nick Redfern UFO excellent thanks so 2463 01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:30,130 much Nick it's been a real pleasure as 2464 01:50:36,390 --> 01:50:34,330 always yes all right you take care all 2465 01:50:37,979 --> 01:50:36,400 right okay everyone that's it for the 2466 01:50:41,010 --> 01:50:37,989 show thank you so much for listening 2467 01:50:44,490 --> 01:50:41,020 we'll be back next week with Diana pulse 2468 01:50:46,050 --> 01:50:44,500 Elka American cosmic UFOs religion and 2469 01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:46,060 Technology should be a wonderful 2470 01:50:49,770 --> 01:50:47,920 interview can't wait for that one and 2471 01:50:51,570 --> 01:50:49,780 thanks so much for everyone that helps 2472 01:50:58,550 --> 01:50:51,580 out with the show and remember everyone